RPGWatch Feature - Torment: Tides of Numenera Review

I've no idea why you put game's core goals under cons Corwin, but otherwise congrats on a fairly decent preview.

Pretty much mirrors my experience as well. Starting over as a glaive I have found more chances at combat although I am not going to replay again (was just doing a little testing) until after the patches and such - just because memory will dim and will be more fun that way.

The story still haunts me a little though as I find myself thinking about my choices at the end a lot. Mainly because it raises some tough questions on choice and how it affects your life and others.

Any game that keeps me thinking about it after I am done playing it is a plus in my book.

I'm glad that Corwin doesn't mind reading.
Planescape Torment was one of my all-time favorites, despite its slow pace.
You have to know going in that this isn't Diablo, or even Baldur's Gate.
Torment games are more like an interactive fantasy novel.
I just hope the writing is half as good as in the original Planescape Torment…

Nameless One: "Can you dig around in my body for anything?"
Marta: "Marta can do that, cancha Marta? Yes you can!"
Nameless One: "Check the intestines… anything could be lodged in there."
Marta: You lie upon the table, and Marta stands over you, a rusty knife at the ready. There is a stabbing pain as she slices into your abdomen, then cuts brutally downwords in a saw-like motion, exposing your innards. Despite the pain, you watch in silent morbid fascination as she plunders your organs, humming to herself.

I really want to play this now, but I'll try to wait for the patches.
InXile has promised to add back in some cut content, including the toy sidekick Oom… I just hope it doesn't take too long.

Originally Posted by HiddenX
Thanks Corwin - I already bought the game, but I'll wait for a few patches before I start playing.

Same here, plenty games to play.

Nice review Corwin! Thanks!

Another great review Corwin. I think I have enjoyed pretty much every game you have positively reviewed so I know I can trust your reviews.

Nice one, Corwin!

As you rightly pointed out: It's a very hard game to actually review. I wouldn't know where to begin. Of course, mechanics and such can be described, but they really don't tell the whole story. In fact, most of the things thing truly worth reviewing would have to be reviewed in a massive spoiler bracket.

All in all though, I suppose the verdict for most people seems to be somewhat similar to my own: Enjoyable game, but it doesn't rival PST.

OK, OK, lots of stuff to read.

Is it GOOD reading? I'm not expecting great literature. But I'd settle for a Stephen King (for example) style page-turner, something that compels me to move forward.

Originally Posted by Ovenall
OK, OK, lots of stuff to read.

Is it GOOD reading? I'm not expecting great literature. But I'd settle for a Stephen King (for example) style page-turner, something that compels me to move forward.

I certainly found it interesting enough to read it properly. The only time I skimmed text was in one of the meres.

Thank you for the great review, Corwin!

"The good news is that your companions can help you with 'skill checks' so you don't need to be a generalist if you have a balanced party."

This actually "bad news". Because it trivializes the whole skillcheck thing and ruins replayability.

Originally Posted by Vindicator
Torment games are more like an interactive fantasy novel.
.

You know there were a lot of combat encounters in PS:T, right?

Originally Posted by Éder Álvarez Balanta
it trivializes the whole skillcheck thing and ruins replayability.

Not really.

1. You can shove off all sidekicks and solo the game.
2. There are many skillcheck instances where only the main protagonist's ones count.
3. During combat if you chat with hostiles skillcheck counts only for a person that's into talks.
4. Skillcheck fails sometimes result with better rewards than successes and sometimes the sidestory gets additional path.

Originally Posted by Éder Álvarez Balanta
You know there were a lot of combat encounters in PS:T, right?

The thing is, most of times you can fight or avoid combat in T:ToNumenera, your choice. This choice is not always obvious, so if you rush persuasion/deception/intimidate dialogue usually combat won't happen as it's set to appear later in the dialogue. In some cases proper "puzzlesolving" will also save you from combat - and no I don't mean skillchecks here.

Please stop being IGN/Gamespot shallow gamer.
I'm not saying Torment2 is as brilliant as PST as I didn't finish it yet, but so far, in my case, it's good.

Originally Posted by joxer
The thing is, most of times you can fight or avoid combat in T:ToNumenera, your choice. This choice is not always obvious, so if you rush persuasion/deception/intimidate dialogue usually combat won't happen as it's set to appear later in the dialogue. In some cases proper "puzzlesolving" will also save you from combat - and no I don't mean skillchecks here.
.

I have finished the game and i suppose i know about encounters in TToN. My point was just that PS:T was not an "interactive visual-novel" and you had a lot of trash combat.

Originally Posted by joxer
Not really.

1. You can shove off all sidekicks and solo the game.
2. There are many skillcheck instances where only the main protagonist's ones count.
3. During combat if you chat with hostiles skillcheck counts only for a person that's into talks.
4. Skillcheck fails sometimes result with better rewards than successes and sometimes the sidestory gets additional path.

1: But… why?
2: Only in very few areas(mostly in the Labyrinth)
3: But there are only 2-3 combat encounters where you can talk to enemies during combat
4: Yup, i have noticed that. It's a shame that it's hard to actually fail a skillcheck

Did not read through the comments, just two things I'd like to mention here:

Your initial choices of Skills and Abilities are very important as they will have great impact on both choices you can make during the game and on general gameplay as well. While they are all given descriptions to help you choose, I found myself unsure which was best. After playing the game and seeing how things work I believe I could have made better initial choices. I guess that adds to the replay value.

I'd say the opposite. It basically makes no difference what you chose to play. Because the game is mostly about the stat pools and your amount of resources there is almost unlimited. So it really does not matter what character choices you take. In the end even the worst fighter will be able to do all the fights (which wont matter anyways, as you can just bypass them or progress if you lose them) and even the most unskillfull character will be able to succeed in all dialogues by just using pools from the companions.
And as mentioned before: Failing often has better rewards than succeeding. So thats another option.
The lack of meaning to character choice is also why I see absolutely no replay value there. (the game has some replay value, but this is due to selection of answers and companions). And that's also a big con of the game imho: All the combat based items and cyphers and all the character skill decisions basically do not interact well with the game and feel tucked on.

Speaking of companions:

One of the things I enjoyed the most in the original Planescape, were the incredibly written companions and their at times hilarious comments. Sadly, that is lacking in this game. Aside from the very beginning there has been no interchange between the characters except for some between your main PC and a companion; usually as part of their personal quest.

I though the companions have a lot of personality actually. I played with Rhin, Matkina and Callistege. And while they didn't have so many discussions with the main character, no other game comes to my mind where these characters brought themselves that often into random dialogues. Talk about killing or assasins: Matkina will contribute. Talk about science: Callistege will add to the dialogue. Talk about morale choices, Rhin might contribute. Also I felt that all these characters had quite some profile. They weren't just husks with some stats but real characters with a backstory and personality.

Edit: Another thing to add would be the bugs, which are still present in this version of the game. Like the annoying sound effect caused by an passive aura which forces you to switch the zone once each time you load the game. Or the crashes / freezes in some combats with too many combatants.

Originally Posted by Éder Álvarez Balanta
My point was just that PS:T was not an "interactive visual-novel" and you had a lot of trash combat.

The topic is Torment:Tides of Numenera review.
When I need my interactive novel fix, I buy some hentai game.

Originally Posted by Éder Álvarez Balanta
1: But… why?
2: Only in very few areas(mostly in the Labyrinth)
3: But there are only 2-3 combat encounters where you can talk to enemies during combat
4: Yup, i have noticed that. It's a shame that it's hard to actually fail a skillcheck

1. Didn't you say replayability before asking that?
2. No. Stop fastrunning through games and ignoring things like useable items in inventory.
3. No. Maybe we don't (in your case didn't) play the same game.
4. It's not hard at all. Try to roleplay a clumsy and ignorant character, make sure your perception and lore skills are low.

.

Have to add to Kordanor's observation, cyphers are this game's utter trash mechanics. Those are used as moneysink and also to cover for bad choices while evolving your character. Negative bonus for having a few too much of them is laughable, 1-2 more than you should have irrelevant penalty takes away the reason to care if you'll keep them or just ditch/sell.
What's even worse, when you sell them to a merchant, this merchant puts them in ordinary inventory, means they don't get any penalty. At least I didn't notice they suddenly drop prices or something being "overwhelmed".

However, as I can't care less for combat in RPGs and cyphers' function is primarily ment for combat, ah well, it's like it is.

Originally Posted by Éder Álvarez Balanta
"The good news is that your companions can help you with 'skill checks' so you don't need to be a generalist if you have a balanced party."

This actually "bad news". Because it trivializes the whole skillcheck thing and ruins replayability.

Indeed.

Just as Effort absolutely annihilates character progression.

Originally Posted by Éder Álvarez Balanta
You know there were a lot of combat encounters in PS:T, right?

Yes, there was combat, but with more words than the Bible, Planescape:Torment played like an "interactive fantasy novel" because it was virtually all story-driven; Except for a handful of fights, combat was optional.

Originally Posted by Éder Álvarez Balanta
My point was just that PS:T was not just an "interactive visual-novel" and you had a lot of trash combat.

I recall the Carceri arc was almost entirely combat.

Originally Posted by joxer
1. You can shove off all sidekicks and solo the game.
2. There are many skillcheck instances where only the main protagonist's ones count.
3. During combat if you chat with hostiles skillcheck counts only for a person that's into talks.
4. Skillcheck fails sometimes result with better rewards than successes and sometimes the sidestory gets additional path.

Each of these remarks is kind of beside the point, though…

You're speaking of how players could by-pass this issue, and not addressing the issue. (companions' help + Effort resource mechanic = taking away from traditional character building)