Prey - Review @ PC Gamer

Originally Posted by Ivanwah
Who started calling these games immersive sims,
and when? It's not that I dislike things getting new names (games like Deus Ex really need their own genre, imo), it's just that it's a really bad name.

Some clueless hipster. Inb4 "psychological open-world lovecraftian immersive sim" , the ultimate luj1 trigger

I don't know, something like nonlinear exploration game would be more fitting, but I guess it sounds more like an actual description of a game than a buzzword usable by a click bait articles. I know I clicked on one of those thinking wtf are immersive sims not long ago.

Originally Posted by Ivanwah
I don't know, something like nonlinear exploration game would be more fitting, but I guess it sounds more like an actual description of a game than a buzzword usable by a click bait articles. I know I clicked on one of those thinking wtf are immersive sims not long ago.

It's been used for decades. Games like Ultima Underworld and System Shock are considered pioneers in the genre. Prey is an obvious fit.

Of course, that doesn't mean the ignorant are aware of it.

I choose to remain an ignorant fool rather than aceept to be a slave to meaningless wording or themepark/busywork coverups for design fails.

Honestly, I've never heard it until few months ago. And Looking Glass is one of my favorite developers.

Originally Posted by Ivanwah
Honestly, I've never heard it until few months ago. And Looking Glass is one of my favorite developers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersive_sim

(proper) Immersive sims are rare, which is probably why.

I think it's a perfect fit - because they really do revolve around immersion and the simulation of a semi plausible environment. The whole concept was always about making the player forget that he's playing a game and allowing him to get lost in another world. I'd argue games like Skyrim and Fallout 4 fall into the same category - though they're obviously more than that.

Calling it a non-linear exploration game would leave out the core experience.

Yeah, but I, and I believe many other people, can immerse myself in any game I enjoy, and I do that. Like you said, Skyrim and Fallout can fall into the same category. For me, so could those heavy machinery simulators, If I actually enjoyed playing those.

Nonlinear exploration game tells you exactly what you'll be doing - exploring a game environment in a nonlinear fashion. That's what ties games like Thief, Deus Ex, Dishonored, etc in my opinion.

Originally Posted by NewDArt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersive_sim

(proper) Immersive sims are rare, which is probably why.

Heh, this is the Holy Grail of game development.
Certain vehicle sim games came very close though.

Back then, I have poured more than 1000 hours into Falcon 4, and most of the time I was just learning how to fly that g*ddamn plane - not yer average Top Gun fantasy, that's for sure
I do remember being sucked massively in multiplay, because when I got shot down, my opponents were actual F16 pilots, relaxing off-duty.

Well, folks, this is a sim game.

Originally Posted by Ivanwah
Yeah, but I, and I believe many other people, can immerse myself in any game I enjoy, and I do that. Like you said, Skyrim and Fallout can fall into the same category. For me, so could those heavy machinery simulators, If I actually enjoyed playing those.

Nonlinear exploration game tells you exactly what you'll be doing - exploring a game environment in a nonlinear fashion. That's what ties games like Thief, Deus Ex, Dishonored, etc in my opinion.

I don't think you quite understand.

The name wasn't invented because they knew Ivanwah would agree with it. It's just a name they used because they believed it fit their design philosophy and the focus of their games.

Ultima Underworld and System Shock, arguably the first recognised examples of the genre, both focus on these very elements first and above all others.

If you can make it work for other games that belong to different genres, then that's cool. I'm sure there are people out there who consider Tetris super immersive and a true simulation of brick laying.

Once again, immersive sims follow a relatively narrow paradigm - one vital feature of which would be a first person perspective.

That doesn't mean everyone will agree what games fit the description.

That's not really the point however.

The point is that it's not a new genre - and Prey is clearly a part of it unless you're being deliberately obtuse.

If that's your thing, then be my guest

Originally Posted by duerer
Heh, this is the Holy Grail of game development.
Certain vehicle sim games came very close though.

Back then, I have poured more than 1000 hours into Falcon 4, and most of the time I was just learning how to fly that g*ddamn plane - not yer average Top Gun fantasy, that's for sure
I do remember being sucked massively in multiplay, because when I got shot down, my opponents were actual F16 pilots, relaxing off-duty.

Well, folks, this is a sim game.

You understand the difference between the specific (FLIGHT simulation) and the general (simulation), right?

Flight simulators tend to focus on simulating….. flight.

They generally don't go out of their way to simulate an interactive environment, for instance. Meaning, in a general sense - a flight simulation is no more a simulation than a game that simulates an environment with relatively complicated interactions.

The word simulation really means a representation or approximation. It's not necessarily about wings and rudders.

Originally Posted by NewDArt
You understand the difference between the specific (FLIGHT simulation) and the general (simulation), right?

Yes, and you do not understand the difference between generics and specifics, but that's okay

Originally Posted by duerer
Yes, and you do not understand the difference between generics and specifics, but that's okay

I'm so relieved you think so

But there is the difference, Falcon 4 is clearly labeled as a combat flight simulator. You know what to expect. It's like shooters - you know you'll be shooting stuff.

By contrast, I expect every game to allow me to immerse myself in it. Some do it well, some don't. Example - the original System Shock was way before my time, and, trying it for the first time some 10 years ago, I was not able to immerse myself in it, mainly because of the control scheme. I believe it's not a bad game, but I was not able to complete it since I was struggling with the controls.

Originally Posted by Ivanwah
But there is the difference, Falcon 4 is clearly labeled as a combat flight simulator. You know what to expect. It's like shooters - you know you'll be shooting stuff.

By contrast, I expect every game to allow me to immerse myself in it. Some do it well, some don't. Example - the original System Shock was way before my time, and, trying it for the first time some 10 years ago, I was not able to immerse myself in it, mainly because of the control scheme. I believe it's not a bad game, but I was not able to complete it since I was struggling with the controls.

Well, if you actually understand how System Shock is an immersive sim - then you'd know what to expect from Prey - and vice versa.

Certainly, you'd have a MUCH better idea than if you called it a shooter - which could be anything from Doom to Battlefield.

If you expect all games including Tic-Tac-Toe and Minesweeper to focus on immersion and the simulation of an environment, then I guess you have a very different concept of what those words means than I and the people who invented the genre do.

Not much I can do to help you here.

Anyway, we're off topic.

Originally Posted by NewDArt
The name wasn't invented because they knew Ivanwah would agree with it. It's just a name they used because they believed it fit their design philosophy and the focus of their games.

…

The point is that it's not a new genre - and Prey is clearly a part of it unless you're being deliberately obtuse.

I guess I see what you're saying, but I'm not sure that the name really means much these days when every other game goes for the same philosophy.

My original question was who and when coined the term. If we are to trust Giant Bomb, it was Warren Spector in 2000. Yet, I have only started seeing it pop up a few months ago. There are numerous articles mentioning the term from mid to late 2016 up until now. Not much before that.

And I'm not saying the genre is new, and I certainly agree Prey belongs to it (at least the gameplay I saw). I just wasn't aware of the genre being called immersive sim.

Originally Posted by Ivanwah
I guess I see what you're saying, but I'm not sure that the name really means much these days when every other game goes for the same philosophy.

My original question was who and when coined the term. If we are to trust Giant Bomb, it was Warren Spector in 2000. Yet, I have only started seeing it pop up a few months ago. There are numerous articles mentioning the term from mid to late 2016 up until now. Not much before that.

And I'm not saying the genre is new, and I certainly agree Prey belongs to it (at least the gameplay I saw). I just wasn't aware of the genre being called immersive sim.

As I said, proper immersive sims are rare - which might be why you weren't aware of the term. By proper, I mean games that follow the same principles as the first games in the genre.

Originally, it went hand in hand with "emergent gameplay" which was also very much part of the simulated environment.

I must have missed how every other game is being called an immersive sim. Then again, I've also missed how every other game is being called "Lovecraftian" according to a few people around here.

But there has been a very recent resurgence of interest in the immersive sim genre, which is just delightful - as it's very dear to me.

I'm greatly looking forward to the upcoming System Shock remake - and I'm hoping Underworld Ascendant and System Shock 3 are great, too - though I'm sceptical about those.

The recent Deus Ex and Dishonored games were also great, though I prefer the more claustrophobic and atmosphere heavy nature of System Shock and Bioshock.

Kind of surprised at scoring here…PC gamer are about as close to being Arkane fanboys, as it gets.

From what I've seen melee and stealth seem poor, some enemy design issues( no telegraphing) and game really looks a bit too derivative of Bioshock.
But they seem to have gone (even) further on interactivity and level design.
Wouldn't be surprised if Bethesda realized there is no profitability to these games and decides to pull away Arkane from it.

Huh? Melee is not poor at all. It does get tricky to smash jumparound mimics, but you have at least one option to "root" them. The game is not Sleeping Dogs however nor is trying to be that so don't expect a kung fu brawler here. Also, the game is not stupid Dark Souls clone so you roll, hit, roll, hit whatever.

Stealth is not poor but completely retarded IMO. Luckily there is no point of using it, trashmobs are all killable one way or another. It's just… It gets boring to kill them over and over again at the same spot where they appear just because you passed through a loadscreen.

Bethesda should only realize that trashmob respawns need be removed from games. Arkane didn't have that in Arx Fatalis nor in Dishonored.
Not only Bethesda but also Bioware who's last game, a trashmob grinder which makes it completely different from the original trilogy with fixed number of hostiles, was not accepted with praise from critics.

I mean look, when I remember dragon respawning every time I visit mage's guild in Skyrim, I can only think hell there are more dragons in this game than any other living creatures, what do they eat? Same goes for stupid ME4, I've posted already, with all those endless trashmob respawns eventually you can kill off the entire Andromeda Initiative.

As for interactivity, I'd take D:OS combos over Prey destructible/flammable/radioactive junk whatnot any day. Even ME4 biotic/tech combo explosions are more fun.

Arkane calls their games "first-person RPG/shooter[s] with a lot of simulation". I can see the intarwebz hive mind jumping on "simulation" as a buzzword for these games because of that.
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/pr…/1100-6449757/

I'm enjoying Prey. I keep thinking how it feels like Bioshock + System Shock + Portal + Arx Fatalis + Dishonored. Nothing to complain about aside from a few technical glitches. It certainly runs a lot better than Dishonored 2 though! That might be partly because the graphics don't really seem to be in the same class, however.

I am looking forward to playing Prey at some point, but I do not like what I am reading from joxer about respawning trashmobs. Respawning is a "feature" I dislike in most any game.