Avernum 3:Ruined World - Announced

Same as always! Not necessarily a bad thing. I still have to play Avernum 2, so I will wait for a sale on this one.
Anyway, I'm happy these games are sill made (even though a new engine wouldn't hurt)!

Originally Posted by JDR13
so many better titles to play.

Yeah no.

I mean, it's entirely subjective, but there's not some huge plethora of turn-based RPGs like Jeff's games out there. If you actually played them you'd know that. What they offer is unique, they are dense with content, quality lore and writing, above average RPG systems, and above all they somehow become very addictive after awhile. Especially when you get in crazy encounters with tough bosses and want to explore that next area and on and on.

Avernum has a 100% handcrafted open-world. Scripted events and encounters all over. Secrets galore with some of the most rewarding exploration you're going to find in a modern rpg. Tough battles. Handplaced everything. Multiple paths and endings. You can do a LOT worse than Jeff's games.

You just don't find this type of RPG design much today. Graphics be damned.

Yup, as far as party-based turn-based RPGs go…no, there aren't actually many titles out there, and even less that are better than Spiderweb's.

IMO the #1 thing holding Spiderweb games back is the RPG system - if Vogel would just use a good pre-existing RPG system like OGL or Pathfinder, he could/would be making some of the best RPGs out there today.

Originally Posted by Fluent
Yeah no.

I mean, it's entirely subjective, but there's not some huge plethora of turn-based RPGs like Jeff's games out there. If you actually played them you'd know that. What they offer is unique, they are dense with content, quality lore and writing, above average RPG systems, and above all they somehow become very addictive after awhile. Especially when you get in crazy encounters with tough bosses and want to explore that next area and on and on.

Avernum has a 100% handcrafted open-world. Scripted events and encounters all over. Secrets galore with some of the most rewarding exploration you're going to find in a modern rpg. Tough battles. Handplaced everything. Multiple paths and endings. You can do a LOT worse than Jeff's games.

You just don't find this type of RPG design much today. Graphics be damned.

That's great… for you.

However, some of us also care about things like production values and having visuals and sound that are at least on par with modern games or even games from 10 years ago.

Others simply don't care for his overall style or his writing. For some, it might be a combination of all of those factors.

It's ok if you don't get that as I wouldn't really expect you to. You've never been very good at accepting that other people have different tastes.

^ Says the guy who made the claim "there are so many better games", lol.

Based on the games I've seen you post about I wouldn't expect you to care about Jeff's games. You do heavily favor graphics and presentation and that is fine. I've got nothing against yours or anyone else's tastes. But a more accurate statement from you would be "there are so many other games I'd rather play", not "so many better games". Because in Jeff's arena, which I already explained what that is, no, there are not a lot of better games. He's pretty much tops in his niche.

Originally Posted by Fluent
^ Says the guy who made the claim "there are so many better games", lol.

Based on the games I've seen you post about I wouldn't expect you to care about Jeff's games. You do heavily favor graphics and presentation and that is fine. But a more accurate statement from you would be "there are so many other games I'd rather play", not "so many better games". Because in Jeff's arena, which I already explained what that is, no, there are not a lot of better games. He's pretty much tops in his niche.

Oh my, Mr. OCD and delightfully delusional is back

Jeff is great at using his cute little tileset engine and making a profit from endless repetition, but let's not get carried away.

Well, I'm looking forward to this. I didn't get far into the "original" Avernum 3, and never played Exiles 3, so this is the one where I'll actually get to see the whole story. The Avernum 2 remake was great, even with knowing a fair chunk of it already (though details/set-ups here and there were different enough to feel knew-ish).

I'm fine with the visuals. I think they age better than the shitty 3d on certain games. That said, if he improved them I wouldn't be complaining. It's just that "good enough" is good enough for his games, because the gfx aren't why I'm playing them.
I even like his terse writing style; at least better than e.g. Biowarian style.

Originally Posted by fadedc
Exile 3.

That was actually where I started the Exile series so I have very fond memories about it. But…..I already played through the story in Exile 3, and again in Avernum 3. I'm not so excited about playing it again for the Avernum 3 remake, especially with the exact some engine as all his other games..

Uh, let me see if I get this right… so this is a remake of Avernum 3? In the same engine?

Yes, it's a remake of Avernum 3, but with the most recent engine as used in the Avadon series (and the two most recent Avernum remakes!).

Originally Posted by Fluent
Yeah no.

I mean, it's entirely subjective, but there's not some huge plethora of turn-based RPGs like Jeff's games out there. If you actually played them you'd know that. What they offer is unique, they are dense with content, quality lore and writing, above average RPG systems, and above all they somehow become very addictive after awhile. Especially when you get in crazy encounters with tough bosses and want to explore that next area and on and on.

Avernum has a 100% handcrafted open-world. Scripted events and encounters all over. Secrets galore with some of the most rewarding exploration you're going to find in a modern rpg. Tough battles. Handplaced everything. Multiple paths and endings. You can do a LOT worse than Jeff's games.

You just don't find this type of RPG design much today. Graphics be damned.

Problem is that most of his games have already been made by him….so you aren't playing a new game just a rehash.

Originally Posted by Shagnak
Well, I'm looking forward to this. I didn't get far into the "original" Avernum 3, and never played Exiles 3, so this is the one where I'll actually get to see the whole story. The Avernum 2 remake was great, even with knowing a fair chunk of it already (though details/set-ups here and there were different enough to feel knew-ish).

I'm fine with the visuals. I think they age better than the shitty 3d on certain games. That said, if he improved them I wouldn't be complaining. It's just that "good enough" is good enough for his games, because the gfx aren't why I'm playing them.
I even like his terse writing style; at least better than e.g. Biowarian style.

Name one recent game that had shitty 3d graphics compared to this…now…if you were talking a early 90 game maybe…

Cool stuff. Avernum is a great series. Great writing and great game mechanics and I don't think there isn't any need to change something in that regard.

The graphics could be improved to reach an Balrum level at least.

But what I'd find most important is the music. He should just buy like 5 tracks from some dude and implement them into his games.

I'd also welcome it if he made his game more challenging on torment difficulty again. Last ones were rather easy compared to Avadon 1 and Avernum: Escape from the Pit.

Btw: Avadon 3 probably had the most significant improvements since Avadon 1 and Avernum 3 were released.
Exciting things like: Being able to close inventory with the same key again as opening, or a display of the path in combat, better pathfinding and stuff like that.
Not huge, but hey, he is improving on some things

Originally Posted by Shagnak
Yes, it's a remake of Avernum 3, but with the most recent engine as used in the Avadon series (and the two most recent Avernum remakes!).

Uh ok. But thanks for the response! I guess I just fail to see the point of a remake of a game from 2002, when the remake looks like a game from 1992. But anyway, don't let me sour the mood. So carry on!

Originally Posted by rune_74
Name one recent game that had shitty 3d graphics compared to this…now…if you were talking a early 90 game maybe…

I'd argue Dungeon Rats. Not because of the engine alone (would say that Age of Decadence looks better) but it also includes extremely boring graphical design of the dungeons. Or to put it differently: It's more enjoyable to the eyes to run through an Avernum 2/ Avadon 3 Dungeon than it is to run through a Dungeon Rats one, where everything is mushy grey and brown and looks the same.

Originally Posted by Steinawarjar
Uh ok. But thanks for the response! I guess I just fail to see the point of a remake of a game from 2002, when the remake looks like a game from 1992. But anyway, don't let me sour the mood. So carry on!

Original:



Remake:

Some of the mechanics in his remakes are different/upgraded too. Mechanically they are way different now from the original Exile games.

Originally Posted by Kordanor
I'd argue Dungeon Rats. Not because of the engine alone (would say that Age of Decadence looks better) but it also includes extremely boring graphical design of the dungeons. Or to put it differently: It's more enjoyable to the eyes to run through an Avernum 2/ Avadon 3 Dungeon than it is to run through a Dungeon Rats one, where everything is mushy grey and brown and looks the same.

I agree. And his dungeons are generally very good. Lots of secrets and areas to explore and he knows how to script encounters (boss/tough fights) and reward exploration.

And as a related side note, Nethergate's opening dungeon is phenomenal, IMO.

Originally Posted by Fluent
Original:



Remake:

Some of the mechanics in his remakes are different/upgraded too. Mechanically they are way different now from the original Exile games.

I don't think that makes your argument.

I don't really care though.

Originally Posted by Fluent
^ Says the guy who made the claim "there are so many better games", lol.

Based on the games I've seen you post about I wouldn't expect you to care about Jeff's games. You do heavily favor graphics and presentation and that is fine. I've got nothing against yours or anyone else's tastes. But a more accurate statement from you would be "there are so many other games I'd rather play", not "so many better games". Because in Jeff's arena, which I already explained what that is, no, there are not a lot of better games. He's pretty much tops in his niche.

That was exactly the kind of near-sighted response I was expecting so no surprise there. Yes, there are better games to play.. more than I even have time for.

As far as being tops in his niche, I completely agree. As that niche appears to be recycling the same low-budget indie titles repeatedly, no one else is even close.