ELEX - First Reviews

Seeing lots of people with several hours played already, and read a bunch of Steam reviews and forum posts saying it's PB's best game since Gothic 2/3. Sounds promising. Hope it's a big success for the Piranhas.

I don't really think that playing it for a few hours and posting a review on Steam makes the 'reviews' very reliable.

Originally Posted by luj1
Just ignore the reviews bitching about difficulty. A huge influx of SJW reviewers into gaming has occurred, people who forgot video games are also about skill and aren't there just to give you handjobs.

Like players who cant play RTwP products without spamming the pause function.

Watched a few streams.

Exploration in games like Skyrim or the latest Zelda happens from within the gameworld. It is initiated from the avatar's perspective: spotting a point of interest, a landmark and then moving toward it. Exploration at the core.
Both products also did a fine work at providing diversity in landscape for Skyrim by providing culturally different zones in the same biome and Zelda by providing different biomes.

In this product, though, the landscape is somewhat uniformized and undistinguished, exploration happens and is triggered by external means like map navigating.

Originally Posted by Zepp

Really weak points for me:

- stiff/clunky/unsatisfying combat - it's an action rpg so if combat does not click it's a game-breaking offender
- bloated hp bars for enemies with simplistic attack patterns a.k.a artificial increase in difficulty - it's not even close to Dark Souls from which it borrowed stamina attack system

They borrowed more than that from DS. While DS combat is contained within a defined perimeter (which allows precision in its design), this one is left with multiple degrees in liberties, especially as the product is big on verticality.

It leaves that imprecision touch as the PC movement is not confined.

They also tried to satisfy the demand for lethal combat, which backfired strongly.

The combat is pattern based, moving around, letting the enemy trigger its sequence to hit it and the combat is reflex based (especially spellcasters: the crosshair turns red when damage can be applied, sweeping the cursor on the enemy and shoot at the right time)

They wanted to lock up areas by fielding hard to take on enemies. With their system, though, players can cheese their way on.
All it takes is to bear being two or one shot. Run around, take the pattern or the reflex path and stronger enemies are discarded.

It is made worse as the enemy seldom displays a mob mentality: it is possible to squeeze one enemy at a time.

Can someone open early impressions thread please? It will be bad if I do it.

Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur
Watched a few streams.

Exploration in games like Skyrim or the latest Zelda happens from within the gameworld. It is initiated from the avatar's perspective: spotting a point of interest, a landmark and then moving toward it. Exploration at the core.

I guess you watched Angry Joe's stream.

The game's exploration is exactly what you say, get close to the point of interest. But unlike your streamers who go dunno where, in my case it's not a landmark.
It's something that's different than it's surrounding. An abandoned truck on an empty road, a campfire on a meadow, a pile of junk in otherwise clean room or something like that.
And then, upon getting close to the point of interest, we can easily loot whatever is there. Usually pots and junk but sometimes there is an equippable item or a chest there.

That's Skyrim to you? Did you even play Skyrim?
Anyway, this system is something Bioware needs to learn from. No need to spam the damned sonar all the time, use visual differences to lure the player on the spot with loot.

Zelda you say? Sorry, there is no hotkeys bar in Zelda. I guess you never played Zelda too. Neither did I, just saw pics. Also, I don't think weapons in Elex are breakable.

Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur
It is made worse as the enemy seldom displays a mob mentality: it is possible to squeeze one enemy at a time.

Why would anyone do that? At least in my game, if there are several trashmobs on one spot they attack each other and ignore me. All I do is wait a bit till their HP is low, lasthit both and get XP.

I seriously believe you should drop whatever streamers you got addicted to.

Originally Posted by Myrthos
I don't really think that playing it for a few hours and posting a review on Steam makes the 'reviews' very reliable.

I disagree with this, at least in part. I agree this is the case for some of those reviews (maybe even the majority) but it's absolutely inaccurate as a blanket statement. I've played all Gothics and Risens and if I were to play Elex for a few hours, I know I'd have enough knowledge to make an assessment as to whether this game manages to scratch that old Gothic itch or not, as well as being able to critique some of the finer aspects of the gameplay.

And when I read Steam reviews, I think it's pretty easy to disregard those thin, unconsidered reviews and instead focus on those by people who have taken the time and thought to put together a useful review, even with a handful of hours. In fact, I do not read gaming sites reviews anymore at all, ever. I feel Steam reviews, with a bit of critical and objective work on my part in dissecting them, ultimately give a much clearer picture of the game than any traditional review.

Originally Posted by SSIGuy
I disagree with this, at least in part. I agree this is the case for some of those reviews (maybe even the majority) but it's absolutely inaccurate as a blanket statement. I've played all Gothisc and Risens and if I were to play Elex for a few hours, I know I'd have enough knowledge to make an assessment as to whether this game manages to scratch that old Gothic itch or not, as well as being able to critique some of the finer aspects of the gameplay.

And when I read Steam reviews, I think it's pretty easy to disregard those thin, unconsidered reviews and instead focus on those by people who have taken the time and thought to put together a useful review, even with a handful of hours. In fact, I do not read gaming sites reviews anymore at all, ever. I feel Steam reviews, with a bit of critical and objective work on my part in dissecting them, ultimately give a much clearer picture of the game than any traditional review.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Scanning user reviews with a critical eye has been my go-to source for discerning if I'll like a game for a very long time now. I used to do it on Gamespot all the time, and now I do it on Steam.

My point was that it is promising to see fans of the Gothic series praising the game as Piranha Bytes' best game since Gothic 2. While it's not a "set in stone" assessment after 4+ hours played (many played more than 4 hours in the first day, which is also promising), it tells me a lot personally. Combine that with picking out useful bits in the Steam user reviews and it paints a better picture than any gaming site or review journalist could, for me.

Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur
They wanted to lock up areas by fielding hard to take on enemies. With their system, though, players can cheese their way on.
All it takes is to bear being two or one shot. Run around, take the pattern or the reflex path and stronger enemies are discarded.

Have you played a PB game before? In all of their games areas were blocked by strong opponents - and in all of them you could get past most of them. That's a kind of freedom for the player. If he is clever enough, he deserves the loot he'll find. In the Gothics you could use transform into XYZ scrolls for this. In Elex the means of choice is obviously the jetpack.

Originally Posted by Gorath
Have you played a PB game before? In all of their games areas were blocked by strong opponents - and in all of them you could get past most of them. That's a kind of freedom for the player. If he is clever enough, he deserves the loot he'll find. In the Gothics you could use transform into XYZ scrolls for this. In Elex the means of choice is obviously the jetpack.

And their "open-worlds" are more like "gated open-worlds", or sort of like a territory "puzzle" you have to figure out a bit. It makes the exploration more dangerous but also more rewarding, with places that encourage creativity and create emergent gameplay as you just mentioned (transform into a warg to lurk in orc-heavy areas, transform back in a safe spot, gain access to a new area because of it, etc..)

I wrote an article on this type of design for the site but it hasn't been posted yet.

Does ChienAboyeur write complete games reviews from watching streams ? Does he actually play any games ?
-
Btw I suspect Elex is a buggy mess because tht's the nature of their games. Does that mean it is (or isn't fun); no clue … but the voice acting doesn't draw me in - that's for sure.

Originally Posted by you
Btw I suspect Elex is a buggy mess because tht's the nature of their games.

You suspect wrong. I can assure you it's not, but then all but 1 of their previous games weren't either.

Originally Posted by JDR13
You suspect wrong. I can assure you it's not, but then all but 1 of their previous games weren't either.

Truth. They got a subconscious judgement based on that 1 game for some reason.

BTW, for those interested, this game was made by 27 people. They do miracles with a dev team that size IMHO.

I'll watch the steam boards closely; i don't give a crap about animation but i do care about poor voice acting and annoying bugs. Lordy knows D:OS-2 had a few too many bugs - anyways - so far folks seem mixed.

I can tell you right now the voice acting won't be anything special without even having played the game. They aren't known for that. It will be "passable" and probably "bad" to some used to AAA games.

About bugs, I'm not sure. There's reports from both sides. PB is actively patching though so that's cool.

Originally Posted by joxer
Why would anyone do that? At least in my game, if there are several trashmobs on one spot they attack each other and ignore me. All I do is wait a bit till their HP is low, lasthit both and get XP.

I seriously believe you should drop whatever streamers you got addicted to.

Streamers of this product are low profile.

Enemies do not attack each other all the time. Places can be guarded by several enemies.

Originally Posted by Gorath
Have you played a PB game before? In all of their games areas were blocked by strong opponents - and in all of them you could get past most of them. That's a kind of freedom for the player. If he is clever enough, he deserves the loot he'll find. In the Gothics you could use transform into XYZ scrolls for this. In Elex the means of choice is obviously the jetpack.

No. Gothics products leave less room to move around. Gothics are more corridor like with confined areas.

It is not about cheesing the way on by running past the enemy but by eliminating the enemy.

As long as the PC makes damage, it is possible to eliminate many enemies. Yield ground to trigger the pattern. Strike. Rinse, repeat. It takes to bear to be one shot.

Where is @Maylander review? Surely hes finished it by now.

Originally Posted by you
Does ChienAboyeur write complete games reviews from watching streams ? Does he actually play any games ?

I already asked him. Heres the answer.

Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur
No. Watches streams of products meant for streamers first.

[QUOTE=Zepp;1061476894…
- Mecha + Post Apo + Medieval Magic = incoherent mess where you shoot a high-tech robot with wooden bow / arrows and somehow damage it[/QUOTE]

This for me is the biggest issue. Has been since the first video I've seen. From what I read the rest of the game is a standard PB game, so if you like their previous ones it should be ok.

I bought it out of principle, but I can't get my self to play it exactly because of what you write.

I find this genre mix very off-putting. It seems to me like someone said:

Post-apocalyptic GOOD
Sci-Fi GOOD
Fantasy GOOD

So let's mix them all and it will be triple -GOOD!

To me it's like being offered some delicious sausages dipped in delicious ice cream, the combo is unappealing…

This will probably be the first PB I will not play…

You shouldn't eat sausage anyway. Innocent animals were slaughtered to make it. No bueno.

Originally Posted by Fluent
You shouldn't eat sausage anyway. Innocent animals were slaughtered to make it. No bueno.

I only eat the guilty ones… they know what they did…