Elex First Impressions

Originally Posted by Fluent
Funny that Arkadia7 liked that post. I knew from his/her post in the thread about CDPR's worker issues that he was a Trump type. I can spot y'all a mile away.

I was going to let this go, because I try to stay away from politics usually in this forum, but changed my mind. Since it came up, yea, I voted for Trump. If that makes you think I'm "bad", then so be it. Doesn't bother me any. Just think of me as one of his dark minions… (evil laugh)

And that will be my last post in this thread, in respect of the principle of not diverging into the politics realm.

Originally Posted by Pladio
Not going to talk about the language bit as I think it's not productive either way.

For me the idea is that at the start you are a nobody and you need to prove yourself.

That's what is special. You don't start the game with any skills or anything that can help you much.

Thats what is interesting to me. I know some people love RPGs with character creation that takes ages and with lots of choices but to me that should be part of the game.

For example in NWN I need to decide whether I'll be a magic user or warrior from the start almost. However I have no clue about the game and lore or storyline…

In pb games it gives me a chance to develop based on the factions and the available skills within the game.

Hope that explains my perspective although I understand that may not be an answer to your question…

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Well, no, you can't answer the question because you're not JDR, lol.

But your point is understandable, yes. Instead of character creation you spend the first few hours playing out your character creation. That's certainly novel, I agree. I've no doubt that's not what everyone does (I've no doubt many people work-out everything from guides beforehand anyway), but I can see how that would work for you and be an original concept for you and probably many people.

Aye I am with Plaido. Oh sure if I can build someone out I will but I also enjoy building as I go as long as I have that option (sometimes building as you go is way too limited in some games). It feels more natural. I like how you are somewhat a blank slate - I like to think the ELEX withdrawal created that issue. That and the fact that Jax is clearly way to dependent on his armor

So, fluent, that corroborates the point I made that the first few hours/bunch of levels are tutorial levels? And that some people like this?

Slow starts are not uncommon in RPGs, quite a lot do this. Many believe that the most fun and challenging time in an RPG is at level 1, so if you extend level 1 gameplay for as long as possible then you'll have lots of fun and challenging game, yes?

Some games offer quicker starts for people who just want to get stuck into it already, and some people prefer that. Is that ok?

Some prefer the additional roleplaying this style affords. This is an RPG site, so yeah.

Originally Posted by Thrasher
Some prefer the additional roleplaying this style affords. This is an RPG site, so yeah.

Additional roleplaying?

Oh… do tell me all about it…

Additional in comparison to what exactly?

Originally Posted by lackblogger
We're not talking about Gothic 2, we're talking about Elex.

That is correct. Gothic 2 laid down the ground rules and pretty much all PB games have followed suit. That is the expectation going into any PB - RPG game. I'm sorry you wanted a different game.

You don't want some beatable monster in the early game? That wouldn't work for you? I have no idea what you're on here. At some point you'll be fighting monsters, delaying that for the sake of delaying that is supposedly good because you enjoy a 15 level tutorial? Give me a break. And when someone starts comparing RPGs to educational lessons then you're completely losing me. I don't mind that you might like your game delayed because you like that style, but your analogy absurd to me. You're not a rookie child-like learner, you're given weapons immediately, you have monsters you can take out immediately, the game has just scattered then willy-nilly to create an illusion of something deeper.

Once again ELEX is pretty much a standard PB game with just a different setting. Yeah I was given a starting weapon in Elex . . . a stick. And while the very first monster was easyish, it did not go down easy, at least for me. And by the way, all those little rats in the starting part of the game are still alive. I have yet to kill a small little rat. The game play from Gothic 1 to Elex is pretty much the same. Start weak, end strong. Beware baddies that are stronger and badder than you because they might be in your immediate area. But as you stated in your prior post . . .

My idea of hard would be if there was a small raptor outside the starting area and you need to utilise all your skills to defeat it comfortably

They have those type of RPGs out there but a PB game aint one of them

If you want a karate analogy then it'd be like your instructor telling you to go practice with steve who's about the same level as you, but before you can get to steve you need to pogo-stick around paul because…?

Perhaps you are proving my point. If for some crazy reason you are in the Cobra Kai karate class and you have to get to your training mate on the other side of the room and you have to avoid Johnny(Paul), because he's crazy and he'll punch you just because. Well you avoid Johnny.

The bully analogy? Sure, that's every RPG ever, you wait for the OP then you go kill the big bad guy. Simply placing the big bad guy out in the open right next to the starting area and having him wait there until the end-game instead of it being a curious adventure to find the bad guy seems like parody more than some kind of revolutionary evolution of complexity.

Come on now, you make some good points but this last point is a making a case out of non existent facts. No end game monsters are placed at the beginning of any PB game. Just tuff monsters.

OTOH, that would make an interesting game to have the end game monster at the very beginning. And the game revolves around a continuing return to the starting place to beat the end game monster who continually taunts you after every beat down. And your quest all over the game world is to gain the necessary powers and skills to beat this thing that continually humiliates you. Finally you gain all that is needed to beat your foe. And when the monster dies, he says congratulations you are now taking my place. Your new mission to find someone to taunt to eventually replace you.

(apologizes to that movie and TZone episode with prior proof of concept)

Well, that's not Elex nor a PB game. And don't get me wrong there are some problems with the game and they have introduced some design changes to the PB format that I feel constrict the game. But the underlying template of start weak, end strong, watch out for nearby baddies is still in play. I have no problem with that format and most of the people who play PB games wish for them to continue on.

Uh, see wolf's post. I mean, one can imagine starting from scratch WOULD be hard, rather than being handheld through level-scaled enemies or a tunnel of linear areas with no choice to put yourself in significant danger.

Originally Posted by Dajjer
But the underlying template of start weak, end strong, watch out for nearby baddies is still in play. I have no problem with that format and most of the people who play PB games wish for them to continue on.

Pretty much all RPGs have you start weak, end strong. That's kinda irrelevant.

Its the "watch out for nearby baddies" which is the discussion point. I'm aware that its a system that the series uses. I'm just asking why that system is supposedly so much better than any other system, I mean, King's Bounty uses that exact same system, but I don't hear people droning on about that aspect as being what makes King's Bounty so unique and "No instant gratification", just as one example.

"Watch out for nearby baddies" is also going to be a much more sensitive thing to balance than having an organised approach to progression. To dedicated fans of the series, sure you have more wiggle room, but for new players, that's going to take some delicate fine tuning isn't it.

Re: your other points:

I didn't want a different game, I'm not disliking the game, I'm asking why so many people are using all this over-the-top language to describe something that doesn't seem to warrant it. Why does having a scattergun approach to monster placement suddenly mean the game is sooooo muuuuuch better than any other generic action RPG?

Like this next reply:

They have those type of RPGs out there but a PB game aint one of them

Just because it isn't something else doesn't mean its automatically good… How I read that is that PB games just have shoddy level designs and if you don't like it you don't "get it", for whatever reason, and somehow the simple fact of me not getting it somehow makes the game automatically good. Even though I do get it, I just think its needlessly ramshackle, additional busywork for the sake of busywork. As I said, you'll be wanting to fight the monster at some point, so why not place it somewhere where you'll likely be when you're ready to face it? What's with this illusion that dodging the thing makes the game better than a game that puts the monster where its more relevant to be.

Regards the continuation of your karate class analogy it just gets more and more absurd with each reply, why on earth is jonny crazy? Does no-one complain?

I also am happy to see lots of PB games both now and in the future, however, it really is tiring having them raised onto this platform every time one shows up just because "watch out for nearby baddies", delayed progression and all the other made-up examples of "superiority" [complex].

Originally Posted by Thrasher
Uh, see wolf's post. I mean, one can imagine starting from scratch WOULD be hard, rather than being handheld through level-scaled enemies or a tunnel of linear areas with no choice to put yourself in significant danger.

I'm sorry, you mentioned additional roleplaying and something about this being an RPG forum, what have level scaling, hand holding or linear tunnels or situations of no danger got to do with additional roleplaying?

Yes, I saw Wolf's excellent post and replied to it, but he didn't mention additional roleplaying.

What games hand-hold you through level scaled enemies?

What games are tunnels with no choice to put yourself in significant danger?

And elex doesn't put you in danger, we've established that you just dodge the hard monsters, like you do in King's Bounty… So you're saying its harder because you can dodge the tough fights rather than try to find a way to beat them? I'm sorry, but to me that sounds absurd.

I guess you don’t understand role playing then. Most role playing is in your mind, not in the game. You are coming from a gamist point of view. Wrong forum for that.

How much questing can you do for a faction before you’re committed to it?

Originally Posted by Thrasher
How much questing can you do for a faction before you’re committed to it?

A lot. Even more than previous PB games I'd say.

Originally Posted by Fluent
A lot. Even more than previous PB games I'd say.

Yes, but it's not actually needed. Almost no quests are removed by joining a faction.

Also, beware that Berserkers get a little upset if you break their famed laws. Doing that a few times means they simply won't let you join, as you won't be able to get past the "gain support" quest.

The lack of strong faction quest limit is good to know - I see that most quests are still open for me now that I have joined the berserkers. More potential XPs…so I can finally get to use that sword I have.

Originally Posted by Thrasher
I guess you don’t understand role playing then. Most role playing is in your mind, not in the game. You are coming from a gamist point of view. Wrong forum for that.

What a bizarre thing to reply with.

While I disagree with your assertion that role-playing is all in your mind and the game offers nothing in this regard, because its quite the most absurd thing I've ever heard, for the sake of staying on-point I'll humour your opinion as a means to find out if your stretch still answers the question:

"Elex has additional role-playing because role-playing is all in the mind"

Um, if its all in your mind and nothing to do with the game, how can one game have additional roleplaying over another game?

Originally Posted by lackblogger
Hard would be the wrong word IMO.

Putting a tyrannosaurus or two next to the starting location, then making it a huge effort to kill any odd rats you find, while making you hunt down fetch quests and loot stashes until you can afford to take on any combat isn't really my definition of hard. It's more a matter of creating illusions of hardness where progression has just been juggled around, like someone performing the three upturned cups trick.

Instead of having areas dedicated to player level, the area levels have just been put through a blender and your job is to to gradually unravel the linearity by jumping around like a pogo-stick enthusiast.

My idea of hard would be if there was a small raptor outside the starting area and you need to utilise all your skills to defeat it comfortably (ie: just going at it with your sword until it's dead wont work without lots of reloads). Then the next fight on your way to the next quest ups the anti a bit, etc etc. I fail to see how simply jumping over the raptor and coming back to it when you're OP can be equated to 'hard'.

Maybe hard is a wrong word but I am not sure what is a better word to describe the above case?

I think having the tyrannosaurus along with the raptors does make things "hard". I *have* to use all my skills to defeat the raptor but I also need the additional situational awareness of the roaming tyrannosaurus. It puts a time limit to my combat with the raptor or make me change the combat location (move the raptor somewhere else and fight). So what I am saying is that "hard" means, I have less options about the combat with the raptor.

Also putting the tyrannosaurus right at the start is telling the player, this world is dangerous and its "bigger" than you and you must bend to its rules rather than it bends to your rule (level scaling).

Yeah, can't say I'm a fan of level scaling either.

But then level scaling in open worlds goes all the way back to Might and Magic, and it wasn't very popular then either. In recent years there haven't been that many games that have used level scaling at all. If we're comparing the game to Oblivion, well, Oblivion came out over a decade ago.

This is ridiculous. What are you all on, the topic is first impressions not yea or nay on level scaling and etc.

Originally Posted by crpgnut
This isn't so great if there are multiple mobs. That's the trade-off I think. Also, I can't hit multiple targets with my bow. I haven't figured out that exactly. How do I change the default attack from one arrow to a barrage or from a thrown grenade to a placed one. There are 3 buttons to the left of my hotkeys, but I don't know how to move between ammo modes. Anyone know?

Press F to toggle weapon modes. Works with anything that has more than one, not just bows.

As about impressions, I'm confused with Duras questline ending. An option is missing or I didn't do something properly. Or it's bad writing/design?

I'm aware that all of this could be just a bugged end of the questline, but still it's hard to believe they missed an option I bet many would choose.

Not sure who asked (crpgnut or wgd), but I did the quest to get 6 parts yesterday. The guy who had 3 does not want to give them, even after you help him. That's not a bug, he's just stubborn.
I tried and yes, you can steal all 3 spare parts from him if you don't want to kill him. Note that you need pickpocket at least level 2 for that. Also note that killing him or letting him live has no consequences apart from different Jora dialogue.

Originally Posted by Fluent
Updated stats: 1716 reviews, 73% are positive = Mostly Positive status on Steam.

I am surprised by how well this is doing in steam reviews. I was really expecting to see mixed over there but its "Mostly Positive".

Steamspy is saying owners of 89,809 - 109,143 of which 30k were on last couple of days ago. This is also impressive since the number is coming after negative reviews from mainstream press.

I guess they will reach at least 200k in couple of months on steam alone….

Another thing I noticed is that many grey key sellers have put the price up in the last couple of days. If a game isn't doing well, these are people who usually drop the price before anyone else. It will remain to be seen if the game holds its price by the end of the month.