Divinity: Original Sin II - Compared with Ultima 7

I think the only reason they compare it to Ultima 7 is Swen has reference Ultima 7 in past interviews. However, Swen never compare D:OS (2) or implied it could be compared with Ultima 7.

I.e, what a lame article.

The comparison is coherent, Ultima 7 design has many weak design aspects, but it is still a landmark for some aspects. When a RPG tries target those aspects it is looking for a comparison. I honestly won' be able to list all the key aspects of U7, still would know it wouldn't be combats, dungeons nor even outdoor world. It would be more:
1 - NPC living and scheduling
2 - NPC/player party complex interactions
3 - Design sophistication of some quests
4 - High care of many details
5 - Crafting interactions
6 - Companions (in party)
7 - Wide world

DOS1 gave up on the 1 even if it was in their initial plans, and gave up focus much on 6. That said on point 6 U7 has aged quite a lot because of Rip Bioware mainly. And for point 7 they didn't bother try but it's a single scale RPG unlike U7 so it's not really comparable.

But DOS1 definitely developed other aspects quite significantly.

Now from RPG I played it's still Gothic 2 that is unchallenged from being the closest to U7 on those aspects. The crafting is a lot less tricky but it's a major gameplay element. On other points it is sometimes deeper than U7 but overall U7 had more contents.

If I pick Baldur's Gate 1&2:
1 is minimal even if there's some key points in some rare parts.
2 & 4 are no way at same level
3 is more or less comparable, probably inferior, or not.
5 almost non existent
6 they started make U7 dated on that point.
7 Yep

And if I pick Morrowind:
1 benefit of few efforts but it's far to be comparable
2 & 3 & 4 are no way at same level
5 I don't remind so it is probably saying all
6 is non existent
7 Yep as any Bethesda RPG

I played 30% of TW3 so it's difficult to apply the U7 formula on it. Now for TW1&2:
1 is comparable but no way at same level.
2 & 3 & 4 are more or less comparable
5 No way as tricky, more important role in gameplay but more a filler tool.
6 No party but there's an effort on companions design and interactions, knowing that U7 is outdated on that aspect, the comparison is coherent.
7 Nope, not at all

I haven't played DOS2 but for now, U7 could be a crap on some design aspect, or have become totally dated on some other design aspects, but in my opinion it is still a landmark on some key sophisticated design aspects.

No Bethesda RPG ever bother use U7 as an influence, but DOS1 clearly did, Gothic 1&2 clearly did, and not many RPG attempted it.

Honestly, in my solo unbiased opinion, anyone that would compare Ultima seven to either of the Original sin games has not played all three games. It is just that simple.

And you are totally wrong. Gambling addict? Sorry to inform you that you just achieved a big fail.

DOS2 is a spiritual successor to BG and BG2, not Ultima 7.

Originally Posted by Carnifex
Honestly, in my solo unbiased opinion, anyone that would compare Ultima seven to either of the Original sin games has not played all three games. It is just that simple.

To be honest, I'd struggle to think of any game which compares to Ultima 7. U7 basically shanked most core RPG elements and instead emphasised simulation and point and click adventure gaming. It wasn't a game to be copied, it was and always will be just an unusual game that stands out because it's unusual, to which one of those comes along quite regularly, almost yearly, but because they're all so 'different' and their core design philosophy is to be 'different' then, of course, nothing compares to them, other than they are games designed to be 'different'.

[some well known examples off the top of my head: Planescape: Torment, Arcanum, Undertale, etc etc etc and all the other square pegs in round holes that exite people but don't really have any true legs beyond one game]

Originally Posted by BlackVoid
DOS2 is a spiritual successor to BG and BG2, not Ultima 7.

I cannot agree with this at all. Pillars of Eternity is far, far more like the Baldur's Gate games, and was in fact marketed as a spiritual successor to those games. Which I think it succeeded at being.

The Original Sin games don't feel much like Baldur's Gate to me.

Originally Posted by Carnifex
Honestly, in my solo unbiased opinion, anyone that would compare Ultima seven to either of the Original sin games has not played all three games. It is just that simple.

I did. Maybe I came to U VII too late or didn't play it enough, to the point where the nostalgia isn't as strong with me, but I certainly did experience it. I like OS 2 better, and like it better than OS 1 as well.

The way I see it, OS is more focused on modernizing classic RPG game elements and less focused on being a spiritual successor to anything. Though Swen has cited U VII as an inspiration.

Originally Posted by rossrjensen
The way I see it, OS is more focused on modernizing classic RPG game elements and less focused on being a spiritual successor to anything. Though Swen has cited U VII as an inspiration.

Well it certainly didn't modernize the loot system. Or the NPC system.

Combat, however, it did pretty well.

Originally Posted by Carnifex
Honestly, in my solo unbiased opinion, anyone that would compare Ultima seven to either of the Original sin games has not played all three games. It is just that simple.

What? No… I've played all three and like others, I can see the similarities between U7 and the OS series. I'd say there are few similarities with OS and Wizardry 2 or OS and Dungeon Master.

Beginning with Divine Divinity, the series to me has been an amalgam of Baldur's Gate, Diablo, and Ultima. I wrote a nice article about this once on Gamespot but last year, after being a member there since the inception of Gamespot, they decided to ban my account for reasons unknown.

Originally Posted by lackblogger
U7 basically shanked most core RPG elements and instead emphasised simulation and point and click adventure gaming.

Hmmm, that statement makes me want to pull out that little old lady from the movie, Titanic to add some desperately needed perspective to your cold forensic summary. Yikes. I was there when it all happened, I know better.

Originally Posted by TheMadGamer
Hmmm, that statement makes me want to pull out that little old lady from the movie, Titanic to add some desperately needed perspective to your cold forensic summary. Yikes. I was there when it all happened, I know better.

Well, c'mon then man, don't just leave us dangling, spill those beans you're teasing us with!

D:OS2 reminds me of Ultima 7 and Baldurs Gate. BG for the combat system possibilities, build diversity and companion interaction. U7 for the interactivity with the world, inventory and crafting.

I want to see D:OS3 build on the strengths of 2 plus…

-Add a genuinely open world like Ultima.
-A day/night cycle & schedules would be optimal however I'll understand if Larian feel too daunted to take it on.
-Incorporate a philosophical theme into the games design and structure the plot and characters around it. ie like Ultima 4 and the virtues.
-Take us to a foreign land like the Lizard kingdom or whats left of the Elven homelands.

Originally Posted by BlackVoid
DOS2 is a spiritual successor to BG and BG2, not Ultima 7.

No way, and Larian leader quoted that it occurred in com and it was looking efficient, but no way he could have imagine people would link the games.

For a reason, there's close to no link.

Originally Posted by TheMadGamer
What? No… I've played all three and like others, I can see the similarities between U7 and the OS series. I'd say there are few similarities with OS and Wizardry 2 or OS and Dungeon Master.

Beginning with Divine Divinity, the series to me has been an amalgam of Baldur's Gate, Diablo, and Ultima. I wrote a nice article about this once on Gamespot but last year, after being a member there since the inception of Gamespot, they decided to ban my account for reasons unknown.

I don't buy the BG thing but Diablo+Ultima, clearly. Alas combats was very far to have Diablo 2 combats finesses. And I'm still expecting such single player single character RPG with Diablo like combats at their best, throw to trash anything else from Diablo or at worse use a weak items system like in DOS but not the pure Diablo approach, and on this base setup some ambitious RPG.

First parts of Grim Dawn are so developed in details that they feel a bit like that, but just a little bit. And combats could be good and much better than in Titan Quest, it's not fully at level of any Torchlight nor Diablo past the first.

Originally Posted by lackblogger
Well, c'mon then man, don't just leave us dangling, spill those beans you're teasing us with!

Would love to take you down memory lane in a fun descriptive way… can't spend time on it now. But I'll keep this thread bookmarked maybe I can do it at some point.