General News - Star Control future is in question

@DogarandKazon Stardock and the original creators of Star Control 2 are feuding which means lawyers.

"THERE WERE MANY GREAT BATTLES… AND SOME OF THEM INVOLVED LAWYERS."

December 01, 2017

Unfortunately there appears to be a growing legal conflict between us and Stardock. We started out confused at what Stardock said and did. We tried to be reasonable and settle the problem quietly, but now after months of debate we are flat out mad! First, a little background information on just our side of the story:

• In 2013, Stardock bought a limited set of Atari's assets at a bankruptcy auction -- primarily the name and trademark Star Control® and certain original aspects of Star Control III, like the space cows. It's our opinion that Atari's rights to publish our earlier games terminated over a decade before the auction and we contend that Stardock has zero rights to our games, including any code and other IP we created.
• As far as we can currently tell, we have no relationship with Stardock that lets them sell the three earlier Star Control games without our permission, either bundled with their other products or separately. That permission has not been given.
• Despite what Stardock's Brad Wardell has recently said, including in this Ars Technica article, our games' universe has absolutely no connection, hyper-dimensional or otherwise, with Star Control®: Origins. (Note: We really don't like other people putting our names in their diagrams without asking us first.)

Stardock now seems to think that not only can they use our aliens, ships and narrative without our permission, but thinks that we cannot make a sequel to The Ur-Quan Masters without their permission -- this is where we got really, really angry.

When we started Ghosts of the PrecursorsTM we were looking forward to spending our time on fun, creative work, not fighting a legal battle to protect ourselves and our work. We have nothing but respect for the talented, passionate developers working on Star Control: Origins, but we apparently have a BIG problem right now with Stardock's management. We've been waiting 25 years to make Ghosts of the Precursors for our fans and we certainly won't let this stop us. Go! Go! Go!

More information.

Ouch. A conflict like this were both sides are confident they are right can only end badly. I hope they manage to settle it before it gets out of hand.

probably wont' - stardock has gotten pretty high-handed about things in recent years.

In situations like this usually the side with the most $$$$ wins.
Though if you were making a sequel may be you could have done it like 5 years ago before someone else came along and did some thing like Stardock?
I don't know I guess the legal fight will figure it out.

"It's our opinion that Atari's rights to publish our earlier games terminated over a decade before the auction and we contend that Stardock has zero rights to our games, including any code and other IP we created."

This sounds weird to me. Opinion? Either Atari owned the rights or they didn't. And if they did and Stardock bought them, well then tough luck. Why would Atari have the right to the name but not the games? That sounds weird too.

It would have been a smarter move from Stardock to just hire the old devs though wouldn't it?

*David Attenborough voice*

Life in the desolate wild is tough, with every blistering sunrise bringing new challenges that result in life, or death. This time however, it is the lawyer and her cubs that will live another day. The carcass of the lawsuit will sustain her for another month and hopefully last until the rains come.

My reading is they claimed that Atari purchased a restricted right that expired a decade earlier. If it did then stardock purchased something that the owner didn't own. If it didn't then stardock owns the rights.

To be honest this sounds like a cash grab.

It seems that Stardock became dirty company.

- Stardock is blocking Fred and Paul from using any of Star Control's familiar races, locations and names. Stardock now claims they have rights for them.
- But Stardock DIDNT CLAIM anything like that at the start of development of their own game .
- Stardock DONT USE any of these familiar races, locations and names in their own game. I think they simply cant use them because they bought limited rights just for the name of the franchise. Im not sure but I think they also said it clearly in the past. So now they lie if they claim otherwise.

It seems that Stardock now acts like EA or other dirty company just because they are afraid of the competition from original creators.

Originally Posted by Farflame
It seems that Stardock became dirty company.

- Stardock is blocking Fred and Paul from using any of Star Control's familiar races, locations and names. Stardock now claims they have rights for them.
- But Stardock DIDNT CLAIM anything like that at the start of development of their own game .
- Stardock DONT USE any of these familiar races, locations and names in their own game. I think they simply cant use them because they bought limited rights just for the name of the franchise. Im not sure but I think they also said it clearly in the past. So now they lie if they claim otherwise.

It seems that Stardock now acts like EA or other dirty company just because they are afraid of the competition from original creators.

Stardock paid for the ip that Atari owned….original owners think they can still use it because atari is no more. How is this wrong on Stardocks front?

Originally Posted by rune_74
Stardock paid for the ip that Atari owned….original owners think they can still use it because atari is no more. How is this wrong on Stardocks front?

Depends if Atari permanently owned the SC rights or if it was a limited contract, as StarControl is suggesting. Stardock may have made incorrect assumptions about what they thought they were purchasing as there was actually a bundle of Atari IP for sale, Starcontrol asseta were a small part of it.

Either way the lawyers will be happy.

On the other hand… why don't they BOTH make a game with the IP and let us decide who used them better.

Stardock games mostly lack soul - and Brad is a terrible developer in terms of design and creativity.

So, it's no big loss either way.

Originally Posted by rune_74
Stardock paid for the ip that Atari owned….original owners think they can still use it because atari is no more. How is this wrong on Stardocks front?

You are probably wrong. Read again what I wrote. According to Stardocks previous statements they didnt buy rights for all the original content. Otherwise they would already use it in their own game. Why do you think they didnt do it?

Originally Posted by Wisdom
*David Attenborough voice*

Life in the desolate wild is tough, with every blistering sunrise bringing new challenges that result in life, or death. This time however, it is the lawyer and her cubs that will live another day. The carcass of the lawsuit will sustain her for another month and hopefully last until the rains come.

Brilliant, thank you!

I know to little to have a qualified opinion, but to me this just sounds weird. If what Farflame writes is correct, I don't see how Stardock could win this lawsuit. It shold be easy enough to prove? Or the other way around, if Stardock owns the rights that should be just as easy to confirm?

Wisdom's got it right, just finish your damn games and stop being so small minded. I'll gladly play both.

Either it terminated or it didn't….it's not an opinion if. Weird choice of words for that.

Ugh - sounds like another who-owns-what that dates back to the years when the stakes weren't high enough to really worry about such details. It will all depend on the contracts.

Since the game has been flat out given away for years under another name, my bet is against Stardock. I'm not betting more than a dollar, though.

Originally Posted by Wisdom
On the other hand… why don't they BOTH make a game with the IP and let us decide who used them better.

Because then a 3rd company could use that in court to show that the company that won didn't defend their copyright, allowing the 3rd company to create a shitty cash-grab game using the names as well. There's a reason why big companies vigorously defend their copyrights even in situations they know will make them look bad for doing so.

I don't want to judge until I know the facts, though as I noted stardock has been a bit high-handed lately.
-
I can certainly see that stardock is concern about the investment they've made in their current game but either they have the rights or they don't and if they don't then they should suffer the negative press - but if they do then while it would be nice for them to come to some reasonable agreement there is no obligation.

Oh that's ugly, but it's hard to judge for an outsider, they just made the first public move, maybe in the hope get leverage on Stardock for their conditions. Maybe they wanted to have it all for themselves. But of course they wouldn't admit if they played some dickmoves too. Brad has another point of view and I think they are not that wrong. At least look what they did and Brads response. https://forums.starcontrol.com/48628…-Paul-and-Fred

The truth will probably be in between. But why this move now after 4 years? it smells a bit of a PR stunt to get some more attention to their project and maybe to grab a bit of money to start it at all. As it's my understanding, they barely started anything and just have the wish and some ideas, hell they not even have an official site. Of course because of the legal uncertainties wont many investors lend their money or to rather bad conditions, so they try to get a better deal this way. But who knows.

I'll often root for the smaller guy but reading Brads post (which could of course be untrue), I get the same feeling as with the people suing HBS regarding Battletech.