SpiderWeb Games…

Finally got around to starting the remake of Avernum Escape from the Pit. Its been a while since I've played a Vogel game. There is an easy way to play his system and a hard way. Well I forgot some cardinal rules and I'm paying for it. I make a similar mistake in Geneforge 4 and almost couldn't complete it. Funny how easy it is to make this games difficult. For example - I forgot you need to invest early and often with Strength or Intelligence to get the compound effect. So Escape from the Pit is pretty difficult. Harder than Avadon but a wide margin if you fail to optimize your party. But its a blast. And boats! I wasn't expecting that . Challenging and great fun.

Yeah I loved escape from the pit. So much to explore and find! What is your party build? I think I had a soldier, archer, priest and sorcerer which worked fine. I seem to remember the archer wasn't great at lower levels but was pretty deadly at higher levels.

Excellent move Todd, glad you're digging the classic charms of Avernum.

For some nostalgia, I just had another look at my old Escape From the Pit thread. This was also my first introduction to Spiderweb games. (I finished with a pretty traditional party - Beserker, Archer, Shaman, Sorcerer)

https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18136

I agree on the boats too - that gave me such a strong Ultima IV-V feeling at the time and makes exploration quite rich and rewarding. Like you guys no doubt, I'm looking forward to the next one.

I basically have two tanks (one sword & shield the other halberd) a priest and a sorceress. I basically walk around with mind wards and for tougher battles inch close and buff with war chant, protection & haste outside of combat. There are now 3 battles I have to walk away from:


I can’t wait to get strong enough to go back and redrum all those scumbags!

I'm finding out now that the scope of this game is far beyond the Geneforge series or Avadon. Level 20 and barely into the main cave? I'm may have to start taking notes on where the settlements and landmarks are. I've left a few barriers behind and the more I play the more concern I have that I'll forget where I saw something. Big game.

Are the remakes significantly different from the originals? I played the originals back in the day and wondering if it is worth picking up one of the remakes to give it a shot.

I didn't play the originals so I'm not speaking with authority, but from what I understand convos and maps are broadly the same (with tweaks), but there are lots of changes to the engine and mechanics such as spells, character progression, secret doors, combat, enemy creatures, overland travel, etc etc.

Originally Posted by bjon045
Are the remakes significantly different from the originals? I played the originals back in the day and wondering if it is worth picking up one of the remakes to give it a shot.

I also wanted to know the differences as I have the original collection, and wanted to know if it is worth getting the new versions (particularly since they are now discounted on Humble).

Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002
I'm finding out now that the scope of this game is far beyond the Geneforge series or Avadon. Level 20 and barely into the main cave? I'm may have to start taking notes on where the settlements and landmarks are. I've left a few barriers behind and the more I play the more concern I have that I'll forget where I saw something. Big game.

Yes, they certainly are big. Which is both good and bad. Good because more of what you like is always good. Bad because towards the end you do run into some really draining backtracking combined with complete confusion about what you have to do where. The difficulty will also spike quite dramatically in the last couple of hours. Hence while most people who get that far do like the games, they also find themselves quite burned out upon completion, and it's a rare soul who marathons more than one or two games in the series in concurrence.

Avernum: Escape from the Pit was my second spiderweb game after Avadon, which was the first one with the current graphics. But Avernum: EftP is still my farvorite game from them so far due to the freedom compared to Avadon and the difficulty compared to Avernum 2 which was quite a bit easier.
I played on torment and it took me 159h (including all achievements) and by that it was also my longest spiderweb game so far. Unfortunately I didn't use to do Let's Plays back then yet, would have loved to look into what I did back then.

Anyways, I don't remember anymore that there was any option to really get stuck. It was extremely hard though on that difficulty, if not the hardest game I played yet, and I remember that I was constantly running against enemies, dying on multiple attempts, to then turn around, search other enemies to come back later and try it again…because it wasn't anything easier left.

Had tons of fun with that one and I am looking forward to the new one.

Originally Posted by Kordanor
Had tons of fun with that one and I am looking forward to the new one.

Only a week to go.

I started with Geneforge 4 and went back to play 1-3 without pausing. But they are shorter games.

This really is an example of how Vogel understands game balance. Some fights scream "come back later" but the ones on the edge are winnable if you throw everything you got at them. Good rewards too if you stretch to achieve. I had to "sacrifice" one of my tanks last night to keep mobs busy while I took down something else. Hated doing it but hey there are always experience crystals to catch up! I don't envy the task of designing in game balance but I do recognize that Vogel really knows his shit. Bravo Jeff.

Maybe it's time to check out some SW games again. I'm sort of in an old-school mood.

Geneforge 4 is still my hands down favorite. Strong story and interesting world. But this is excellent too. Feels very open world. Story a bit more marginal but still good.

Overall I prefer the Avernum games myself, but there is nothing wrong at all with the Geneforge series. Maybe it's just a matter of preference, in my case maybe the Avernum games were more melee friendly, or at least seemed that way to me.

Partially agree. My first run was a melee character with a few Dryak creations I kept leveling up and only replaced them half way through with Cryo-Dryaks. I was able complete the game and I had a few bitchin swords, one dripping with acid if I recall. But it goes without saying that the "easiest" path is Shaper + Vlish. In 1-3 I did Vlish and Gazers if I recall. But still loved my GF4 melee guy.

I suppose you really have to like the summoning mechanics to prefer the Geneforge series (which I do by the way).

I really disliked the summoning mechanics, restarted Geneforge a couple of times due to that and finally gave up on it. I just don't like how the XP is shared among party members, including summons, which kinda "force" you not to summon to get all the xp.

I played the demos for 3 or 4 of the Genforge games, and they all seemed like the same game to me.