Avernum 3: Ruined World - Jeff Vogel Blog

Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002
Icons likely means he is headed to a system similar to Battle Brothers. I don’t enjoy the abstraction. Cant get into it. So yes to me that is a step backwards.

Same here, I can't get into a game with art like Battle Brothers or Knights of the Chalice 2. Hope he doesn't go that route.

Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002
Icons likely means he is headed to a system similar to Battle Brothers. I don’t enjoy the abstraction. Cant get into it. So yes to me that is a step backwards.

Makes me suspicious that he's aiming for mobile platforms as well.

Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002
Icons likely means he is headed to a system similar to Battle Brothers. I don’t enjoy the abstraction. Cant get into it. So yes to me that is a step backwards.

Sorry to hear it. I play icon-based RPGs like Realmz, Master of Magic, IceBlink engine games and so on, and also 3D RPGs, first-person RPGs, etc.. I like to try all different types of experiences, not ruling out any one specific type.

One of the better RPGs I've played recently was SanctuaryRPG, and that is a text/ASCII RPG. I like being versatile.

Wow! The comment section is full of ad spam.

Originally Posted by Thrasher
Wow! The comment section is full of ad spam.

Yikes.

I really need to get around to playing more of his current crop of games, though. Avernum 3 sounds great, but I always feel wrong for skipping the previous entries in a series (didn't finish Escape From the Pit, haven't played Crystal Souls, etc..)

I think I played Avernum 5 and none of the others except Geneforge.

Not sure how it fits in with the original 3-part Exile series.

Fluent you pretty much like everything. I’m a bit less forgiving

Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002
Fluent you pretty much like everything. I’m a bit less forgiving

I just don't rule out certain types of games because of how they look. If there's an interesting RPG I'll try it.

I’m sure I’ll try it he always has a demo. My disappointment is that he was showing a clear progression towards 2D Isometric party based greatness. There is still a big void in the RPG market left in the absence of Infinity based gaming. With PoE going all piratey the gap will apparently continue ARRRR. Maybe Basilisk will fill the void.

Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002
I’m sure I’ll try it he always has a demo. My disappointment is that he was showing a clear progression towards 2D Isometric party based greatness. There is still a big void in the RPG market left in the absence of Infinity based gaming. With PoE going all piratey the gap will apparently continue ARRRR. Maybe Basilisk will fill the void.

Bro, that's beyond him. As much as I like Jeff's games I in no way, shape or form would ever expect him to take it to that level. Either slightly improved what he's got or icon-based is exactly what I expected. While I won't deny at all that there's a void in IE type stuff, Jeff ain't the guy to fill that. But he serves his niche well.

I'd be fine with a more-detailed, higher res Realmz type look that translates great to mobile. I think mobile is lacking in quality, complex CRPGs and Jeff's games are great for that platform. As long as the core experience isn't lacking in RPG elements I'm game.

By icons he means this (which I think applies to his current graphics? Regardless, I think it's just the terminology he uses for his art):

"Note that, while we like larger graphics, we're much more interested in icons (small, say less than 70x70 pixels, of people, monsters, items, etc.)."

source is a codex post which takes that quote base don a statement made years ago on art.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/jeff-vogel-soapbox-thread.91814/page-24#post-5479707

Even better. If it's an enhanced looking style of what he does now I'll be cool with that.

“Bro” lol

"Less forgiving" but you've gone and skipped games that are universally praised by CRPG fans like Battle Brothers. So is it that I just love everything or are you restricting yourself?

People discern themselves right out of potentially interesting experiences. It's like the kid who won't eat asparagus because it looks funky then later tries it and realize that shit is delicious. You kids need to eat your veggies.

We can agree to disagree. While the game mechanics of Battle Brothers look interesting I can’t get attached to bouncing icon heads. If he could be dissuaded from going down that graphical path it would, in my opinion, be a good thing. So whether Battle Brothers is the greatest thing since sliced bread is irrelevant. I don’t like the idea of Vogel adopting that aesthetic. I’m not the only one with this opinion

The key line is

It will still be a low-budget, turn-based, icon art fantasy RPG with a rich story

I don't think icon art means what the doom sayers thinks it means. In my opinion he is just saying it will be the same look in a new engine with new art. Anyway I'm loving Avernum 3 and very much looking forward to whatever he does next.

Hmm I may have been wrong. There is an even more interesting quote from that AMA

At the time, I really likes the look of isometric games and wanted to try that. For the new game engine, we like the look of top-down games and want to do that. We have to change things up sometimes to stay interested.

I can't believe he's gonna go the same route as Battle Brothers or KotC 2. If so, I think that would be a huge mistake. His games are already ugly and simplistic as is.

I don't care personally, as I'm not a fan of his work, but I could see a lot of people being disappointed by such a move.

Yeah it's difficult to say what he has in mind from the quotes. It sounds a bit like he's heading back to the graphic style of the original Exile series to me, but it's difficult to say without seeing them.

If it is in fact going to be top-down, I understand why. Jeff does not have the resources to go into a really improved-looking isometric look. I don't see any way he could do something to the quality level of the Infinity Engine and no way in hell could he get close to the Pillars engine on his budget.

ToddMcf had a great idea - license the Infinity Engine from Beamdog. It still has a ton of life left, Siege of Dragonspear looks beautiful in it and it has potential. The problem is, it's hard to develop for apparently, and time-consuming. Jeff is definitely smart enough to make it seem easy but it's probably still out of his league cost-wise when it comes to art assets, etc..

So the natural thing would be top-down or something that is easier to manage. Where else could he feasibly go and still cram his amount of "stuff" into the game? I just can't imagine a Spiderweb game that looks like Pillars or Divinity or something, lol.