Jeff Vogel - Kickstarter Next Week

Originally Posted by Couchpotato
Nah he's calling me and others like me who criticizes Jeff Vogel & his design decisions "armchair quarterbacks". He might be right and sadly Vogel will never change.

His games are nothing but rinse and repeat with small graphic updates.

Yet you've bought them all? I'm puzzled.

Originally Posted by rune_74
It was never about the graphics for me….it's about not having a new idea in 20 years….I don't need to play exile with a new coat of paint.

If we were in a pub with a beer we could argue that many RPG's are just rehashes of the same old fantasy tropes

Like the rest of you I'll be watching this space, see what's on offer. Agree a new story line is needed. Also agree that I'm drawn to a dev who seems to produce what he wants and not what the denizens of an MBA armed committee think will sell.

Originally Posted by Dez
Yet you've bought them all? I'm puzzled.

Yeah a cheap bundle on Steam and GOG so I didn't pay full price for any of them.

Originally Posted by KaosWarMonk
If we were in a pub with a beer we could argue that many RPG's are just rehashes of the same old fantasy tropes

Like the rest of you I'll be watching this space, see what's on offer. Agree a new story line is needed. Also agree that I'm drawn to a dev who seems to produce what he wants and not what the denizens of an MBA armed committee think will sell.

Very few are carbon copies however.

Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002
Probably the best thing about Jeff is that he will build his vision of a game with zero consideration of armchair quarterbacks. It’s worked for decades and he isn’t about to change now.

That is indeed the big moment.

Until now, he was self funded. He is now crowdfunded. Change in attitude or no change in attitude.

Well Jeff's different game lines feel very different from each other, there is no way that I can possibly claim that Geneforge was anything like Nethergate, other than a few signature touches in every game.

The problem is just the individual games within a series. Not only does he tend to rehash the exact same story, but he also tends to use the exact same game mechanics without much thought for trying to improve on the last version. Usually when I buy a full blown sequel to a game, I expect significant changes and reworkings of the system to keep things fresh. But we are lucky if Jeff adds a new class or a new spell.

Avernum 3 (the remake) is the first Vogel game ever that I haven't bought. But the new game will be an instabuy for me.

So when exactly is this event going to happen ?

Originally Posted by fadedc
Well Jeff's different game lines feel very different from each other, there is no way that I can possibly claim that Geneforge was anything like Nethergate, other than a few signature touches in every game.

The problem is just the individual games within a series. Not only does he tend to rehash the exact same story, but he also tends to use the exact same game mechanics without much thought for trying to improve on the last version. Usually when I buy a full blown sequel to a game, I expect significant changes and reworkings of the system to keep things fresh. But we are lucky if Jeff adds a new class or a new spell.

Avernum 3 (the remake) is the first Vogel game ever that I haven't bought. But the new game will be an instabuy for me.

This is really the main problem with Spiderware games. Geneforge, Avernum, and Avadon, are all in my opinions super games with interesting ideas. Avadon 2, Avernum 2, and Geneforge 2 would even be better games, if it weren't for their predecessors. Avadon 2 and Geneforge 2 seem like bigger and better versions of their predecessors with only slightly tweeked plots. I don't mind the same setting, but I do expect to have a significantly different story, especially in a story oriented game.

Now in fairness, the one exception to my recycled story complaint is the Avernum series, Jeff does do a pretty good job of telling a very different (and often reasonably compelling) story in each episode. The only notable exception for me was Avernum 4, which I'm guessing few others have played because it's old and hasn't been remade.

The reason I haven't bought the newest Avernum isn't as much the story (although I do hate playing through a story for the 3rd time) as the mechanics. In the old days of exile Jeff used to really play with the mechanics from game to game changing things up and keeping them fresh. But now I seem to end up creating the exact same party with the exact same fairly limited skill and spell options every time and I really can't seem to bring myself to do that again.

I have three mods almost finished for Avadon 2 3 and the latest Avernum. So very interested in their Kickstarter stuff!!!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHhhhhhh

Any info about which day?

Yea. this is next week but ….

The campaigns tend to start near a weekend, so perhaps around Thursday or Friday, later this week?