General News - CRPGs are back

Originally Posted by daveyd
Wasn't Sword Coast Legends the last official D&D game?* It was received horribly because they tried to make it appeal to casual gamers…

And I don't even think WotC realized the problem; I think they concluded that there isn't a big enough market for singleplayer D&D video games anymore… Ugh, if someone would make a proper D&D CRPG it could be a success.

Oh well, I'm happy Realms Beyond is coming.

* ( I mean unless you count Siege of Dragonspear, but that's an expansion of an old game so I don't)

The last DnD game was Tales From Candlekeep: Tomb of Annihilation boardgame adaptation. It's a fine game but only as deep as boardgames can get, so not a lot.

Sword Coast Legends (which I rather like) was more inspired by DnD rather then based on DnD gameplay-wise. That's why it failed.

CEO of WotC said in december they plan to release 5 videogames by 2020 (of which they haven't announced any yet - unless NwN:EE was included), so I hope at least one of them is a proper RPG.

Imagine that, releasing a proper computer RPG for your pen-and-paper RPG. As obvious as it might seem, I wouldn't hold your breath. Companies as big as WotC only care about the big money to be made with multiplayer microtransaction shitfests.

I've been hearing about the death of computer role playing games since I got a computer in the eighties. Somehow, I'm not only playing some classics but even new ones come out every so often!!

That's rather disappointing to read once again, that multi-player infections just seem to be taking over. I'll just have to hope that my tiny, insignificant niche will inspire some people to make the products I enjoy.

In closing, anyone that didn't buy/play Torment: Tides of Numenera missed out on a swell game. Grab it, if you enjoy the style and don't mind reading occasionally, you'll like it. You might even learn something new!

Originally Posted by Stingray
Imagine that, releasing a proper computer RPG for your pen-and-paper RPG. As obvious as it might seem, I wouldn't hold your breath. Companies as big as WotC only care about the big money to be made with multiplayer microtransaction shitfests.

Well, the fact they are supporting all of Beamdog's extended editions might suggest otherwise. Ten years ago it was unthinkable for WotC to have anything to do with games using obsolete editions of DnD.

Frankly, I don't understand WotC. They claim Dungeons and Dragons is doing better than ever, yet they release only three books a year, which is like the lowest number in the history of DnD, and they cancelled Forgotten Realms novels production line. Other settings are pretty much on ice.

"CRPG is dead! Long live CRPG!"
- FARGO, Brian

There, I summed it all up for you guys.
You're welcome.

There have been a lot of great CRPGs in recent years, but none of them have been that commercially successful besides DOS:2 (which is in my opinion a very casual RPG). Crowdfunded sequels like POE2: Deadfire, Banner Saga 2, and Shadowrun Hong Kong improve on their predecessors in many ways yet had very underwhelming launches.

I'm pretty sure PoE1 was hugely successful, we know that from SteamSpy back when it still worked. Sold about as many copies as D:OS1.

the problem is still the same, people misunderstand what the essentials are. its not about elements and having CO OP or other features, its about QUALITY, having a meaning and having a huge emotional impact.
Fargos creativity is so stunted its sad.

i disliked all of these projects. tyranny was the best and that too was flawed for lack of more scripting (more choices).

another huge problem with these games is their fucked up unrealistic settings people will have problem connecting to. do something contemporary, live in the present day with present problems

Originally Posted by Stingray
I'm pretty sure PoE1 was hugely successful, we know that from SteamSpy back when it still worked. Sold about as many copies as D:OS1.

I wouldn't say hugely successful, but the relative success it did have had a lot to do with Obsidian being on its last legs and marketing towards infinity engine nolstalgia.

The sequel doesn't get the same goodwill or nolstalgia buys, which is sad because it's one of the few sequels where I feel the developers listened to every complaint and improved all areas of the game. It makes me very pessimistic.

I guess I don't know what you mean by goodwill. It got about the same reviews as the original. And I don't think we really have any idea about the number of sales, with SteamSpy gone?

Isn't part of the issue with the big sequels like PoE2 that they invested a lot of money (beyond KS funds) for them? E.g. didn't they do full voice acting? so they were hoping to sell more copies than the first one.

Originally Posted by Stingray
I guess I don't know what you mean by goodwill. It got about the same reviews as the original. And I don't think we really have any idea about the number of sales, with SteamSpy gone?

SteamSpy is not gone yet it's just harder to get the data since the Steam Update. If you follow Twitter the developer of that site is trying something different.

Link - https://twitter.com/steam_spy?lang=en

Pillars of Eternity

Owners: 1,000,000 - 2,000,000
Players: 1,270,320

Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire

Owners: 100,000 -200,000
Players: 196,437

Probably not accurate but take a look at the steam graphs also.

Link - https://steamcharts.com/app/560130

Oh yeah I know it's not gone, but it's of very questionable accuracy now… Not sure how much stock I'd put in that 100-200k number.

I pointed out in some old thread (which I can't find atm) that the PoE2 peak player # was like 1/2 of what PoE1 reached, so that was a bad sign for sure.

For most of us RPG nuts, they never really went away… at all. You all know what I mean

So apparently some people only consider isometric party-based games as crpgs.

This may be heresy, but I think part of the problem with the sales of single player RPGs is that they're often simply not that good. There's all this analysis of the customers and the trends, but I don't think I've ever heard them ask, "Perhaps we're just not good enough?"

I think that if you released an RPG that was actually as good as BG2, it would sell like hotcakes.

borcanu already said that. Quality, not quantity.

You would think WotC would want to release a new 5th edition crpg. 5th edition has made D&D more popular then ever. The rules are perfect for a crpg. Has many races, classes, subclasses, subraces, the largest list of monsters to fight, and a bunch of settings.

You could even be lazy about it and make a new Baldur's Gate using 5th edition rules. Or I could dream and they could do remakes of ToEE or the gold box games. Why not do a new Keep on the Borderlands or Against the Giants. Sigh, thinking of these possibilities just makes me sad.

A well made 5th edition crpg would help sales with the 5th edition books and their products.

Originally Posted by Ripper
This may be heresy, but I think part of the problem with the sales of single player RPGs is that they're often simply not that good. There's all this analysis of the customers and the trends, but I don't think I've ever heard them ask, "Perhaps we're just not good enough?"

I think that if you released an RPG that was actually as good as BG2, it would sell like hotcakes.

This might also be heresy, but I actually don't think BG2 is good. Seriously, we need to stop holding BG up as one of the gold standards of CRPGs. Clunky combat with hordes of boring trash mobs, and mostly annoying companions. I'm not saying I hate everything about it but there's a lot of problems and it really hasn't aged well. IMO the only thing that puts it above a lot of other RPGs is the D&D system. It is more fun to build characters in a D&D game (even if 2nd edition is less interesting than 3rd) than a lot of modern RPGs where you "build" doesn't really matter because you can just make your character awesome at everything.

Sorry, disagree @daveyd. I know you HATE RTwP combat, but for me (and I'm sure for many others) BG2 takes the crown

As for problems, all games have its own problems. It just boils down to preference and implementation.