Pillars of Eternity II - Beast of Winter Released

Originally Posted by Silver
Developers need to learn to tease these announcements out and make us anticipate it some.

Fair enough, but consumers should learn to be more conscious as well.

If you like the developers and their product, buy it at release. Don't punish them for making a good game even better. This goes for all developers, not just Obsidian.

Originally Posted by Silver Coin
Fair enough, but consumers should learn to be more conscious as well.

If you like the developers and their product, buy it at release. Don't punish them for making a good game even better. This goes for all developers, not just Obsidian.

This is a sentence I can agree with - but on the other hand, the sheer existence of DLC makes me rather want to buy a *complete* package.

Originally Posted by Silver Coin
I agree that it's not the most optimal marketing strategy, but that doesn't change the fact that developers shouldn't be punished for improving their games after release.

It's simple. They released a great game - They continue to make the game better - Fans refuse to buy the game until they're done improving it - Developers sink money.

It's bullshit, and you all know it.

While I personally agree with you that PoE2 is a great game and worth the buy at full price, I can't agree with you on this discussion in general.

The "Bullshit" to me is the DLC model, not the gamers who choose to wait. I'm extremely sad to hear that PoE2 hasn't sold well, but it was Obsidians own decision to go the DLC route. Had they instead announced an expansion that would take place post PoE2 main story that might have made a difference, and for these type if games I think that's the right way to do it.

I'm buying Beast of Winter, I'll buy the other DLC's, and I'll gladly back Obsidians next game. Not because I'm afraid they'll go out of business otherwise, although that would be a shame. I'll buy them because I think they'll be worth it.

The mid-game DLC is another issue. I prefer DLC that improves the base game over DLC that adds half of a game after. That's just me though.

For the record, you can beat the game first and still play the DLC with the same character. It makes an endgame save before heading to the final area. DLC content scales to max level.

Originally Posted by Silver Coin
Fair enough, but consumers should learn to be more conscious as well.

If you like the developers and their product, buy it at release. Don't punish them for making a good game even better. This goes for all developers, not just Obsidian.

I agree with this, and am already supporting developers by buying games I like at release.

It really just makes no sense to release a game of this sort in such a piecemeal fashion. They did the same thing with PoE1, dividing White March into two pieces. I remember them saying it was a mistake, but now they're pretty much doing the same thing again?

I spent a little bit of time trying to puzzle out why they'd do it this way, but not coming up with a whole lot. Given that all DLCs were pre-planned and pre-announced before even seeing how well the game sold, I can only think of two possibilities that are logical:

(1) They ran out of money (or ran dangerously low on money) to finish the game and needed to get money from release sales ASAP to finish the rest.

(2) They decided that $40 isn't enough for this game and the full game should cost $70 ($40+$10+$10+$10), but at the same time they wanted to give people who didn't want to pay $70 for the game the ability to instead buy it for $40 and "officially" be able to say they played the full game as released, even though they really didn't because they're missing $30 of it. Inotherwords, a way of selling the game for $70 (or $65 with "season pass") but people who balk at paying $70 for a game can still get a scaled down version for $40 instead, so they don't lose customers.

Not like it's some kind of revelation that it's about the money, because it obviously is…suppose I just preferred the Good Old Days™ when this game would have just been delayed another 6-9 months and released at $60.

I'm truly confounded by the immediate presumption that if a game has planned DLC, that its content would have obviously been cut for that DLC. It's a dumb and naive thought process.

White March should have been released as one package, yes I'll give you that, but that doesn't preclude a developer - Obsidian or otherwise - from having good ideas during a game's initial brainstorming phase, ideas that may or may not mesh with the main campaign.

Or do people seriously prefer a game to launch, developers to get reassigned to other projects, and studio heads to only consider an expansion 6-12 months down the line? And ship a product 2 years afterward like the "Good Old Days" seemingly, nostalgically espoused here? Well, dare I say it, if you think that, then you're an idiot. The marketplace is completely different now and you're lucky to keep a consumer's attention for a few months, let alone the length of time required for a "wait and see" design approach of fifteen years past.

Uhh, naive, dumb AND idiotic. What a balanced view of those who don't agree

Quick Dart, pick out keywords without any context and exposition and turn it into 10 pages of back and forth.

You're right, it's amazing how much some people can go on when their arguments are so weak.

In any case, thank you for another amazing contribution. Your name calling is truly a compelling approach to get your point across

Originally Posted by Silver Coin
I agree that it's not the most optimal marketing strategy, but that doesn't change the fact that developers shouldn't be punished for improving their games after release.

It's simple. They released a great game - They continue to make the game better - Fans refuse to buy the game until they're done improving it - Developers sink money.

It's bullshit, and you all know it.

Why are you so sure that post game support and dlc are the main reason for poor sales?

While I voiced my displeasure with drawn out post release content and wanting a finished game before I play, the bottom line is if I think the game is good enough I will buy it at release despite having to wait for all content to release.

The main reason I haven’t purchased POE2 yet is POE1.

I backed POE 1 for $300 then purchased 2 more copies at release for my sons. So I spent north of $400 on it. Neither me nor my sons have been able to stay interested in POE1 long enough to finish it.

Maybe this is more the reason for poor sales. Everyone that liked POE1 backed it and everyone that didn’t is taking a wait and see approach and going to grab it on a sale. ( me included)

You think it’s a great game that doesn’t make it a universally accepted fact.

Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan
You're right, it's amazing how much some people can go on when their arguments are so weak.

The reality of making a profit in a saturated market and keeping a business afloat in 2018 is indeed a very weak argument. Do go on, Dart.

Originally Posted by Drithius
The reality of making a profit and keeping a business afloat in 2018 is indeed a very weak argument. Do go on, Dart.

As in, if we don't agree that they're going about it in the only possible and realistic way - we're dumb, naive and idiots, right?

But I was referring to those ten page arguments. Usually, it takes more than one person to keep going.

In any case, I'm sort of bored with overly aggressive people around here. So, I'll leave it alone.

Have fun!

Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan
But I was referring to those ten page arguments. Usually, it takes more than one person to keep going.

In any case, I'm sort of bored with overly aggressive people around here. So, I'll leave it alone.

Have fun!

You're a funny guy, Dart!

In the case of PoE, the White March DLCs added considerably to the replay value. Since I've already paid for PoE2 via the Fig Campaign, I'm just going to hold off on the DLC purchases for a future replay.

It's simple: they don't owe me anything, and I don't owe them anything.
They are the ones who approached me (a consumer) and asked if I want to buy their game, not the other way around. If their business strategy is not working for them, it's their fault. They need to change.
I like Obsidian games, but I'm not a fan of Obsidian. If we support Obsidian just because it's Obsidian, and we might lose them if we don't, that will just lead to brand loyalism and fanboyism, and that is not good. Support products, not companies.

Yea, I almost always buy these games in the complete editions, with everything included, on sale. *shrug*

Unless it's a game I backed on Kickstarter or fig, and I'm usually getting a good deal that way too.

Remember that Obsidian did just conduct a rather extensive survey on DLC:

https://forums.obsidian.net/blog/9/e…nt-dlc-survey/

I'm sure the type of DLC and the time frame it's being released is based partly on Obsidian's interpretation of the survey's results.

From that survey:

A large number of respondents commented that, while they would not commonly refund/return the base game in order to acquire the Game of the Year (GotY) Edition, they would refrain from purchasing a game at all once DLC of any kind is announced until a GotY or other complete edition is released.

They are aware of the problem, hopefully they fix it.

For my part, I will probably buy this when it's on sale at some point so I can replay the entire game with the "expansion". It just strikes me as poor thinking to release a game expansion/chapter like this when most people (well those who played it immediately on release) have just finished the game? I have no desire to replay it again so soon, just so I can play the DLC…so I will wait until I do wish to play it again, by which time the DLC price will likely have dropped and they will get less money from me. Now, if they released a post-end-game expansion, I'd be throwing money at them. Of course, that would require a lot more work…since they need to factor in the way the game played out…so I can see why they may not like that.