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Originally Posted by Silver Coin
That's complete nonsense. 4th edition Dark Eye essentially has freeform character building, or something very close to it, and more attributes and skill choices than D&D.

D&D has a very rigid class structure that doesn't allow for 1/4th the build diversity of Dark Eye. Pease stop talking out your ass.

I'll just take your word for it since I don't know TDE well enough, but I'll say that I like when classes are distinct, as long as the options within each class are plentiful.

Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan
Let's not get upset

I'm not upset. I just know a bullshitter when I see one.

I'd bet that you have never played the Dark Eye P&P game once in your life.

I'm afraid freeform character building in and of itself doesn't necessarily translate into fun or meaningful diversity.

To me, fun and meaningful diversity isn't about the amount of builds I can come up with with 2% more in Swords and 4% less in Shields (or whatever) - it's the amount of distinct builds that are unique, effective and fun.

As for 3+ Edition of DnD - the class distinction is a large part of what's great about it, because you get to combine flavor with diversity - which is usually what's missing in systems like Dark Eye

More talking out your ass. D&D is far worse than Dark Eye at what you're talking about. The biggest class distinctions in D&D are your BAB and allocated spells. In Dark Eye you have infinitely more customization and options for your builds.

And yes, 90% of the time freeform character building is superior to class systems, and Dark Eye is no exception. Especially since there are more attributes, skills, and other character building options in Dark Eye than D&D.

Originally Posted by Silver Coin
I'm not upset. I just know a bullshitter when I see one.

Yes, you seem very upset over this.

I'd bet that you have never played the Dark Eye P&P game once in your life.

More talking out your ass.D&D is far worse than Dark Eye at what you're talking about. The biggest class distinctions in D&D are your BAB and your allocated spells.

And yes, 90% of the time freeform character building is superior to rigid class systems, and Dark Eye is no exception. Especially since there are more attributes, skills, and other character building options in Dark Eye than D&D.

I find it amusing that you exchange with my ass.

If you come up with an argument, let me know. I already understand that you prefer Dark Eye and that you think having more numbers is more interesting in and of itself.

To me, it sounds like you have a very, very limited understanding of modern D&D.

Not that it matters much.

Have fun with whatever you enjoy, I say

Sorry dude, but I did make an argument. You're conceding the debate because you know you were talking out of your depth and have never played Dark Eye before.

Oh, my mistake. I struggled to detect an argument beyond you repeating that you really like Dark Eye because it's so much better than D&D

Anyway, I think it's established that we should stop exchanging about this.

You seem even worse at it than usual. It's probably getting to you that very few people can see the wisdom in your profound insight.

It's the first step - so rejoice

Have you played Dark Eye before?

You've already called me a liar, so you probably need to come up with a very, very good reason for me to repeat myself

Originally Posted by TomRon
The only game that comes even close (that I've played) is PoE2, the addition of multiclassing on the already good PoE system makes it versatile enough to be really interesting.

PoE2 is superior because it takes the 4th edition D&D concept of giving every class their own set of unique abilities and power sources, so each class plays completely different.

In D&D 3.5, classes are defined mostly by what stats and spells they gain each level rather than feats. A level 1 fighter in Neverwinter Nights plays almost exactly the same as a level 10 fighter, except they are tougher and hit harder. In PoE2, a level 10 fighter can play radically different depending on which abilities you take at each level.

Why even argue with someone who thinks 4th edition is the best? He is either a trollboy or 7 years old. You could play every system ever made but your thoughts wouldn't matter because they are fundamentally flawed. It's like arguing with people that think an Xbox has better graphics than a top of the line computer.

Originally Posted by Hastar
Why even argue with someone who thinks 4th edition is the best? He is either a trollboy or 7 years old. You could play every system ever made but your thoughts wouldn't matter because they are fundamentally flawed. It's like arguing with people that think an Xbox has better graphics than a top of the line computer.

Sometimes, I get curious if people can back up their claims or not.

You have to keep an open mind about these things

It's certainly an "interesting" position to think that 4th Edition is superior - if build diversity is great and "rigid classes" is bad.

One might say it's hard to contradict yourself more than that.

Originally Posted by Hastar
Why even argue with someone who thinks 4th edition is the best?

4th edition D&D isn't good, but many of the changes it made such as class powers were unjustly hated. It was a combination of poor marketing and being too radical.

D&D is a subpar game overrated by the masses, but 4th edition attempted to transform it from a lame casual experience into a more hardcore tactical wargame.

Despite its mediocrity, it was a step in the right direction.

He is either a trollboy or 7 years old.

Statements like these don't make you seem anymore mature.

I was planning to add something, but decided it is nicer to let Silver Coin meet Darth on his own

Originally Posted by Archangel
I was planning to add something, but decided it is nicer to let Silver Coin meet Darth on his own

Amen.

More talking out your ass.

If I had a talking ass I'd sell him for scientific experiments.

Anyway, HERO/Champions is clearly the best system, followed by GURPS.