Are open worlds too big these days?

I fired up AC Origins yesterday to see how it run on my PC. The game world is huge and its very pretty. I ran around and looked everywhere etc. It was nice for random exploring.

Then I started doing some quests and I immediately had to make use of the quest markers as to where to go. This also meant I am looking at the compass/minimap thing and also the big overland map to navigate the world. Because of this lot of time was spent looking at particular corner of the screen instead of looking and taking in the world before you.

In older open world games such as Gothic or even the new Risen games, you can sort of learn the lay of the land and navigate it by way of landmarks. There was no need for the minimap/compass thing. You will spend enough time in a big city (there is probably just 1 or 2 of these) to learn the layout of the city as well. AC: Origins, the first village is huge but you don’t spend more than couple of hours in there so there is no chance you will learn the village layout. And there are 100s of villages/towns/cities in AC:Origins.

What I am getting at is that, older open world games are smaller in area so you get know the world and the cities in it and this made it a personal experience. These days open world games are so big you cannot navigate them without tools such as compass/minmap and this has the counter effect of taking you out of the world itself.

So what do you prefer? Do you prefer huge open world or a small open world where you can learn the layout of it?

Having said all that, we actually use minimaps in real world too to navigate in the form of GPS!

Are open worlds too big these days?

Personally, I'd put the question rather the other way round :

"Do people nowdays lack patience to explore open worlds ?"

Just take a loock at the background story of the Pixar movie "Cars" : People drive an motorhighways these days - and thus they forget the beautiful landscape. No-one is taking the slow, but beautiful tours anymore.

I'm torn on this question. I love Gothic/Risen for the same reasons. They are handcrafted, easy to explore, large enough to hide plenty of secrets and be interesting, yet not too large you're running around mindlessly in usually empty areas. They are packed with "stuff" to see, find and do.

Having recently played FFXV, I loved the huge open world. It had interesting landmarks and was fun to explore. Then I think about Daggerfall and how I'd love, love to see a new take on that style of RPG with modern tech. So for me, it just depends on how the game is built and executed. Both styles can be fine. I had to use to quest markers in FFXV, too, but it didn't really detract from the game since the world was so nicely built. It lent to a sense of grandness and really "getting lost" in the good sense.

I'd say I'd like to see larger than Skyrim open-worlds in the future. I'd love to see the next TES game be 3 times the size of Skyrim, just to give more of a sense of all these "major" cities not being cramped together. And I'd like to see actual cities with larger populations and normal citizens milling about, not the tiny things we see now from supposedly "major" cities in TES games.

Rambling a bit, but I'd say it's a matter of what you're in the mood for. Give me Risen any day, one of the best designed open-worlds ever, but I'll take a TES or FFXV, too. So I guess that wish-washy ramble really doesn't take a side, does it? Sorry about that.

I've not yet encountered a game that I thought the world was too big. Usually I'm of the mind that they tend to be on the smaller side, with a few exceptions. Give me more to explore and I'm a happy lad.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
Personally, I'd put the question rather the other way round :

"Do people nowdays lack patience to explore open worlds ?"

Just take a loock at the background story of the Pixar movie "Cars" : People drive an motorhighways these days - and thus they forget the beautiful landscape. No-one is taking the slow, but beautiful tours anymore.

I get what you are saying but my point was that we can only process so much information so if these worlds get too big we need other aids like minimaps to help us but they have their downside too. I am willing to take a smaller world so that the experience of exploring is bit more personal.

Originally Posted by TheRealFluent
I'm torn on this question. I love Gothic/Risen for the same reasons. They are handcrafted, easy to explore, large enough to hide plenty of secrets and be interesting, yet not too large you're running around mindlessly in usually empty areas. They are packed with "stuff" to see, find and do.

Having recently played FFXV, I loved the huge open world. It had interesting landmarks and was fun to explore. Then I think about Daggerfall and how I'd love, love to see a new take on that style of RPG with modern tech. So for me, it just depends on how the game is built and executed. Both styles can be fine. I had to use to quest markers in FFXV, too, but it didn't really detract from the game since the world was so nicely built. It lent to a sense of grandness and really "getting lost" in the good sense.

I'd say I'd like to see larger than Skyrim open-worlds in the future. I'd love to see the next TES game be 3 times the size of Skyrim, just to give more of a sense of all these "major" cities not being cramped together. And I'd like to see actual cities with larger populations and normal citizens milling about, not the tiny things we see now from supposedly "major" cities in TES games.

Rambling a bit, but I'd say it's a matter of what you're in the mood for. Give me Risen any day, one of the best designed open-worlds ever, but I'll take a TES or FFXV, too. So I guess that wish-washy ramble really doesn't take a side, does it? Sorry about that.

Again I get what you are saying. Take AC: Origins, the huge world in one sense make you feel small which is a good thing. Ancient Egypt was supposed to be grandiose place after all! On the other hand, I keep on looking the minimap to see where I am going and to orient myself. This doesn't feel right for some reason! maybe we need better and less immersion breaking tools to navigate these huge worlds? I have no idea what they are or how they should look like!

Also based on what you wrote, I think you will love AC:Origns so you should check it out.

Yes.

Size is treated as a selling point, when it's density and immersion that matter most.

Originally Posted by Carnifex
I've not yet encountered a game that I thought the world was too big. Usually I'm of the mind that they tend to be on the smaller side, with a few exceptions. Give me more to explore and I'm a happy lad.

My complaint isn't that they are huge per-se but tools we use to explore and navigate them. You can't take away these tools as well else you will be lost.

Originally Posted by lostforever
You can't take away these tools as well else you will be lost.

Go back to old games (15+ years back) and check how the quests are written compared to "modern games". The reasons you get lost today is because all directions have been removed from the quest text to only keep stuff like "find the ring" and landmarks is basically nonexistent so you can't say "the pond beside the swamp" because all ponds looks the same beside all the swamps in the game.

So they just slap quest markers that tell you what to find and in what spot so you don't have to search all the similar looking ponds beside all the swamps in the game.

Biomes and city architectures are important too, just like unique landmarks, they help with orientations.

Originally Posted by lostforever
Again I get what you are saying. Take AC: Origins, the huge world in one sense make you feel small which is a good thing. Ancient Egypt was supposed to be grandiose place after all! On the other hand, I keep on looking the minimap to see where I am going and to orient myself. This doesn't feel right for some reason! maybe we need better and less immersion breaking tools to navigate these huge worlds? I have no idea what they are or how they should look like!

Also based on what you wrote, I think you will love AC:Origns so you should check it out.

You're the second person to recommend AC:Origins to me. I might have to give it a go sometime.

And I agree with your first paragraph. That is the problem, isn't it? Too big a world, how do you get around and figure it out? Too small, you feel cramped, although the minimaps are not as necessary. As long as the game doesn't use the Fable "glowing trail directly to your destination" technique, I'm happy with it. I think there's room for Risen to be what it is and also FFXV and large worlds. But new immersion techniques are definitely required! I hope game devs are working on your suggestions, I think they're great areas to improve the huge worlds…

I mentioned before that I like huge landscapes, and know that if I see it, I can go there. One approach I've thought about is to have a very large game-world, but not attempt to fill it with significant content every 50 yards. Have the wilderness and the forests there, so you hunt, search for herbs and minerals, and so forth, but make the game very much about finding maps and clues to interesting locations, and following quests. Even have a few dungeons and temples hidden away where there's only a small chance of ever stumbling upon them.

Fast travel would then be mainly used, to get to the main hubs of content.

Originally Posted by azarhal
Go back to old games (15+ years back) and check how the quests are written compared to "modern games". The reasons you get lost today is because all directions have been removed from the quest text to only keep stuff like "find the ring" and landmarks is basically nonexistent so you can say "the pond beside the swamp" because all ponds looks the same beside all the swamps in the game.

So they just slap quest markers that tell you what to find and in what spot so you don't have to search all the similar looking ponds beside all the swamps in the game.

Biomes and city architectures are important too, just like unique landmarks, they help with orientations.

Organic directions really help with immersion: "Take this map", "Talk to Bob the builder in Builderton - he knows the way.", "You'll find it anywhere on hillsides with bushes.", etc.

There needs to be a sense of reality about scale. Daggerfall was size for the sake of it without the necessary variety to provide a reason to explore all of the towns and cities.

So I don't care how big games are made, but that the variety to make you want to explore is available.

Depends if the world is hollow or interesting. miles after miles of empty sand would be pretty boring.

No, as long as there are different options for getting around the world (walking, fast travel, horses/cars, helicopters, etc.), it is a nice looking world, there are busy and slow spots, and a nice balance of content and quality to quantity.

Originally Posted by Ripper
I mentioned before that I like huge landscapes, and know that if I see it, I can go there. One approach I've thought about is to have a very large game-world, but not attempt to fill it with significant content every 50 yards. Have the wilderness and the forests there, so you hunt, search for herbs and minerals, and so forth, but make the game very much about finding maps and clues to interesting locations, and following quests. Even have a few dungeons and temples hidden away where there's only a small chance of ever stumbling upon them.

Fast travel would then be mainly used, to get to the main hubs of content.

Sounds sort of like FFXV's world. There are some areas that will be hard to reach and even find, and a lot of the content is there for those who want to return after beating the main game and then leveling up and doing all the rare/optional stuff. But it's a huge landscape with a lot of mining spots, herbs, rare fishing spots that have even rare fish and more secrets. It's missing the (very important, good one Ripper) aspect of finding little maps and clues to interesting locations. Quests will send you to some but others you need to hunt down yourself. I do love the Risen "here's a piece of the map, there's a temple down here I marked with an X, go explore it if you get the chance" way of doing things. And I love hard to find secrets, whether they are areas, encounters, loot spots, whatever. It adds a mystique to the world that adds so much to the game.

Yes, things like following up on rumors and scraps of information, trying to track down the locations of the four pieces of the holy armor. Love that kind of stuff.

Originally Posted by Ripper
Yes, things like following up on rumors and scraps of information, trying to track down the locations of the four pieces of the holy armor. Love that kind of stuff.

Not sure if you mentioned if you'd played FFXV yet or not, but it's an interesting open-world RPG. Has quest markers and the like but a lot of exploration with some "figure it out on your own" type stuff. And you can do all that optional stuff, like fish for rare fish or sea monsters, hunt deadly creatures all the way up to level 99 and more. I recommend it as a Huge Open-World RPG.

I plan to look into it. I was put off by the sort of boyband bros taking selfies in a convertible vibe. Also, someone said you need to watch some anime thing in order to understand the plot. Did you find it reasonably coherent?

Originally Posted by Ripper
I plan to look into it. I was put off by the sort of boyband bros taking selfies in a convertible vibe. Also, someone said you need to watch some anime thing in order to understand the plot. Did you find it reasonably coherent?

I finished the game and really enjoyed it. The story was simple enough to me, although at times vague, which I can't get into without spoilers. I didn't watch any anime, though, and understood most of it. 75% of it or so is pretty basic.

The bros aren't as much of a boyband as they are a brotherhood…well, eventually. Their personalities are well developed and you grow to love them after a rocky start. One aspect almost had tears in my eyes when it happened, due to something that happened to one bro. It's a gripping tale, for sure. One worth playing.

The convertible can also be transformed eventually into a monster truck that can go offroad, if that's more your thing. It was mine. Just gotta hunt the rare upgrade parts, which are fun sidequests. And chocobos are awesome, I don't care what anybody says.