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Default Do NOT download/ install latest Windows 10 update, you may lose files

October 6th, 2018, 16:39
There are open source tools for that which definitely are not malware. Windows itself is not open source and there is no way for a user to precisely know what it is doing.
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October 6th, 2018, 16:47
Sure, I appreciate that, but that's the distinction I would make - distrust of the sort of thing a corporation might be up to, vs what potential malware might get up to. But that's a matter of personal judgment, to be sure.

I didn't know there were open source tools for dealing with activation shenanigans.
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October 6th, 2018, 17:18
Yep, some of the more popular ones (not that I'm an expert, khm ) are open source.
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October 6th, 2018, 18:53
Absolutely hate MS as a company. Only reason I run windows is because freaking game develoeprs won't support linux. MS is one shithole of a company with there anal approach to updates as well as other stuff.
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October 6th, 2018, 18:59
I find their refusal to address the inconvenience of their update system quite remarkable. Pretty much everyone I work with curses the name of Windows, but almost exclusively for that reason.
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October 7th, 2018, 07:07
As someone who's been working in IT for a couple decades now, it's so amusing to see people make mountains out of molehills.

Sure, it might suck to have less control over updates. But most users only see the problems directly in front of them, instead of the whole picture. People don't really comprehend the IT issues of today are little fuzzy bunnies compared to the zombie apocalypse of tech issues in the past.

I used to feel the same way about these "big brother" OS issues, but automation and security is a breeze now (relatively). Think about it like this:

Some of you are great with your machines. You back up your data. You're religious about applying security and stability updates at convenient times. You use proper protocol for viruses, phishing emails, and questionable websites. But guess what? Many many many others are not like that. In fact, a very large percentage of people aren't like that. And even the ones that say they are, are not. It's not an insult, it's a statistic. And this is why Windows has evolved to where it is today. So if you're going to get upset about it, MS is probably not who you want to get mad at, but the millions of other idiot users out there who ruined it for you.

There's no such thing as an OS that will never need updates. So MS has two choices. Either force updates as much as possible and let the users complain about convenience, or allow full control over updates if they wish and let the users complain about security, stability, compatibility, etc.

And my gawd, if you're worried about losing files, you're doing it wrong. If you don't already have any sort of backup system in place for your stuff, there will be no tears shed.

No i'm serious. Go backup your shit now. And if you have pictures and videos on your phone or tablet that you don't want to lose, get Google Photos now, and have it all automatically backed up to the cloud for free, unlimited.
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October 7th, 2018, 09:14
I strongly disagree with your position. Furthermore if security was the sole issue they could break things down between security patches and feature releases; but the core issue is that ms wants you to do things THEIR way not your WAY so they frequently have changes that suite their needs (not security, not end user but THEIR objective); and to me this is the core problem. They have a monopoly which results in many people using their OS even if it is bottom of the barrel shit; and then they force changes that meet nothing more than a business objective. To top it off the quality of their changes is too frequently substandard loaded with unintended ill side effects.

Originally Posted by Caddy View Post
As someone who's been working in IT for a couple decades now, it's so amusing to see people make mountains out of molehills.

Sure, it might suck to have less control over updates. But most users only see the problems directly in front of them, instead of the whole picture. People don't really comprehend the IT issues of today are little fuzzy bunnies compared to the zombie apocalypse of tech issues in the past.

I used to feel the same way about these "big brother" OS issues, but automation and security is a breeze now (relatively). Think about it like this:

Some of you are great with your machines. You back up your data. You're religious about applying security and stability updates at convenient times. You use proper protocol for viruses, phishing emails, and questionable websites. But guess what? Many many many others are not like that. In fact, a very large percentage of people aren't like that. And even the ones that say they are, are not. It's not an insult, it's a statistic. And this is why Windows has evolved to where it is today. So if you're going to get upset about it, MS is probably not who you want to get mad at, but the millions of other idiot users out there who ruined it for you.

There's no such thing as an OS that will never need updates. So MS has two choices. Either force updates as much as possible and let the users complain about convenience, or allow full control over updates if they wish and let the users complain about security, stability, compatibility, etc.

And my gawd, if you're worried about losing files, you're doing it wrong. If you don't already have any sort of backup system in place for your stuff, there will be no tears shed.

No i'm serious. Go backup your shit now. And if you have pictures and videos on your phone or tablet that you don't want to lose, get Google Photos now, and have it all automatically backed up to the cloud for free, unlimited.
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October 7th, 2018, 09:45
"Your OS will be modified at the appointed time. Dissent will not be tolerated. Loss of data is the sole responsibility of the user. All is well, citizens. Carry on."
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October 7th, 2018, 11:45
I am completely ok with people disagreeing with me. Their naivety keeps me employed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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October 7th, 2018, 11:49
Microsoft's bullshit certainly creates plenty of busywork for techies.
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October 7th, 2018, 13:20
Originally Posted by vurt View Post
Windows 7 is not an option if you are a gamer and want to use latest direct x etc.. There are games which are win 10 only too.
I don't play the latest games, and yes, my PC isn't even of the oldest breed …

Windows XP and Windows 7 are safe - as long as you dont plug any network cable into them. Plus no connect to wireless things.

This is a thing people often forget because of our "network always on" philosophy of the recent times.
Which steam did help to sink into people's minds, by the way.

With the release of the Windows 10 October 2018 Update, version 1809, we’re empowering a new era of personal productivity.
Rhetorical psychology at its best.

Too bad that they are

We have paused the rollout of the Windows 10 October 2018 Update (version 1809)* for all users as we investigate isolated reports of users missing some files after updating.
so this means they are actively hindering us from ascending into this new era of personal productivity ?
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October 7th, 2018, 13:49
Yes, it's utter nonsense. Pretty much I.T. 101 is that you don't lose user data, period. If you are making such changes to a system that could risk data loss, like a major OS upgrade, you warn users to backup and ask them if and when they wish to proceed. You do NOT roll over them and tell them afterwards that they should have backed up. That's ludicrous.

Updates small and large obviously need to occur, but it's a false dilemma to present the situation as updates or no updates. There are any number of ways to handle it, some much more considerate to users than others.

One of the ways that some software handles it is to have the idea of LTS (Long Term Support) upgrades. So, regular updates are only small security patches, and new major releases are made every couple of years. Each major release is supported for several years, to ensure that people have a very large window in which to decide whether to upgrade.

The existing Windows upgrade system could also be made far more convenient. What it does at the moment is to use any opportunity when you shut down or startup to start its update process, which is sometimes very lengthy. This often occurs at very inopportune moments for people, and causes a great deal of annoyance when people are in a hurry. It could easily give the users more control, and always allow them to defer updates in a far more useful way.
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October 7th, 2018, 13:57
I'm hoping this happens more, heck, like even a really huge news making incident that embarrasses microsoft big time. Then maybe they will get it through their skulls that they better change their philosophy or start allowing a lot more user control over updates to avoid another embarassing incident.

I'm still on windows 7 so this doesn't affect me, but microsoft really needs to rethink their direction, and a few high profile incidents/mishaps could be just the thing.
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October 7th, 2018, 14:29
They've at least acknowledged the problem and stopped the update.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonev…/#1acca554665b
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October 7th, 2018, 14:53
Originally Posted by Caddy View Post
As someone who's been working in IT for a couple decades now, it's so amusing to see people make mountains out of molehills.

Sure, it might suck to have less control over updates. But most users only see the problems directly in front of them, instead of the whole picture. People don't really comprehend the IT issues of today are little fuzzy bunnies compared to the zombie apocalypse of tech issues in the past.

I used to feel the same way about these "big brother" OS issues, but automation and security is a breeze now (relatively). Think about it like this:

Some of you are great with your machines. You back up your data. You're religious about applying security and stability updates at convenient times. You use proper protocol for viruses, phishing emails, and questionable websites. But guess what? Many many many others are not like that. In fact, a very large percentage of people aren't like that. And even the ones that say they are, are not. It's not an insult, it's a statistic. And this is why Windows has evolved to where it is today. So if you're going to get upset about it, MS is probably not who you want to get mad at, but the millions of other idiot users out there who ruined it for you.

There's no such thing as an OS that will never need updates. So MS has two choices. Either force updates as much as possible and let the users complain about convenience, or allow full control over updates if they wish and let the users complain about security, stability, compatibility, etc.

And my gawd, if you're worried about losing files, you're doing it wrong. If you don't already have any sort of backup system in place for your stuff, there will be no tears shed.

No i'm serious. Go backup your shit now. And if you have pictures and videos on your phone or tablet that you don't want to lose, get Google Photos now, and have it all automatically backed up to the cloud for free, unlimited.
Yeah, blame the user(s). You are correct, most of the people are not tech savvy and don't backup, but Windows was marketed as the best, most secure OS, and never did they say "oh, but you should totally backup your data, we might fuck up sometime in the future".

Imagine if someone sold a hammer which works well, but around 100th hit it just shatters, but it was marketed as the best one and the shattering part was never mentioned. People like construction workers or hobbyists would know to buy something more trustworthy, but most people, who don't use hammers daily, would buy it and forget about it. Then on a 100th hit or so, it shatters. Would we still blame the users or would we call the hammer company a scam and proceed with legal actions? Why give software companies special treatment?
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October 7th, 2018, 16:14
I didn't update nor rushed it. Some did, that's a specific type of audience that believes anything new is better (why do you think Hollywood forces silly remakes?).

On the case of losing files the reason is simple, M$ doesn't care. It's two reasons in fact.
1. PC is not phones. Microsoft wants to turn it into phones and it's obviously failing. Sooner or later they'll stop doing nonsense.
2. Microsoft doesn't care about gaming on PC but is concentrated on consoles junk. I wish AMD had more $, more luck with vulkan and more strength to ditch contracts on inferior consoles hardware. Then M$ would sing another story.
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October 7th, 2018, 16:27
I'm still angry that they are hindering us from acending into this new age of personal productivity.
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October 7th, 2018, 16:34
I'm not angry. It's all part of evolution. Every now and then #1 gets challenged. In nature evolution, each time cooperation wins over strength. But nature has it's own rules while masses have something the nature doesn't - mass hysteria. So sadly, most of Kotor fans didn't cooperate and a stupid mmo wasn't ignored by them. But now we got a second chance with Anthem. I'm very interested how will that end.
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October 7th, 2018, 18:49
Originally Posted by vurt View Post
Windows 7 is not an option if you are a gamer and want to use latest direct x etc.. There are games which are win 10 only too..

The Search function was also totally bugged out on windows 7, it almost never worked as it should. I could search for e.g .wav or .nif and it found 0 files on my hdd's (when it should have found tens of thousands of files). It's was a fairly well known problem and MS never fixed it afaik.
I never liked the search function of any version of Windows. Ridiculously slow in this age of terabyte hard drives. I now use the freeware UltraSearch 64-bit. It can do a full search of my 10+ TB of files and data in 10 seconds or less. Ridiculously fast
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October 7th, 2018, 18:59
Originally Posted by JackOfOwls View Post
I never liked the search function of any version of Windows. Ridiculously slow in this age of terabyte hard drives. I now use the freeware UltraSearch 64-bit. It can do a full search of my 10+ TB of files and data in 10 seconds or less. Ridiculously fast
yeah i usually don't like third party options for search or for file copying etc since it's usually separate programs you have to rely on, that makes them very inefficient for everyday work.

Anyways, search works great with Windows 10, never got that bug i always got in Windows 7 where i could be in a folder with 10 .nif files and it reports there are none. There was some workaround with rebuilding the index but for some reason that almost never worked either.
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