Realms Beyond - Kickstarter Live

Originally Posted by Silver Coin
I've only seen one red flag, and it's what Fluent pointed out

I've seen scam kickstarters in the past excessively namedrop like this

Well, I'm not interested in making the case against, as such. It's only in rare cases that I'm waving a red flag and saying that I think something's rotten in Denmark. But, generally, I take up a skeptical position on crowdfunding. It is, after all, asking for money in exchange for a promise. Lots of little things play into whether I feel convinced or not. But I'd be very happy to see this deliver on its promise.

With how ambitious this game is, I'd be happy if it delivered on even half of its promise.

I do think they are going to need more money than what they asked for though.

The issues that I've had recently with several kick started project was the delivery system that they used to deliver/enable keys. I'll just have to hope that this project shies away from those kinds of systems.

Originally Posted by Carnifex
The issues that I've had recently with several kick started project was the delivery system that they used to deliver/enable keys. I'll just have to hope that this project shies away from those kinds of systems.

What systems do you have in mind?

We planned to use BackerKit, but we can still change.

Originally Posted by Ripper
Well, I'm not interested in making the case against, as such. It's only in rare cases that I'm waving a red flag and saying that I think something's rotten in Denmark. But, generally, I take up a skeptical position on crowdfunding. It is, after all, asking for money in exchange for a promise. Lots of little things play into whether I feel convinced or not. But I'd be very happy to see this deliver on its promise.

Like Ripper, I don't chip in for crowdfunding because I don't like spending money on something without actual goods. Still very interested in this so I will keep an eye on it. My husband was very impressed with the pitch and plans to chip in though.

Regarding credibility: If you look at the bottom of the kickstarter there is a "Who We Are" section, and it says -- "More than two years ago, we established Ceres Games for the sole purpose of developing a complex party-based RPG that would resurrect those qualities found in the classics of the 80s and 90s. Led by industry veterans Peter Ohlmann and Timothy Drude, among whose numerous titles include The Settlers II, Knights and Merchants, and the SpellForce series, we found other RPG enthusiasts to join our project early on.

Ceres Games is fully independent and not affiliated with any publisher or investor. A successful crowdfunding campaign will allow us to stay on this path.

Our team is currently comprised of international developers who love the computer role-playing games of the past. This passion is the guiding force behind Realms Beyond: Ashes of the Fallen."

Back to my comments: So, at least two developers are named. I'm assuming some people who are into rpgs or work in the industry would know who these guys are. Secondly, I know the Spellforce games were rpgs + real time strategy by doing a google search, and have heard of the Settlers games. Finally, on the Realms Beyond official website, a street address is given --
Ceres Games GmbH
Johann-Clanze-Str. 79
81369 München
Deutschland

If you look that up on Google maps, streetview mode, it shows a smallish white building. Now, if one is being skeptical, one might argue that building is some sort of PO Box place for a mailing address only, or just seems too small for a company, but it sounds like these guys are more about working internationally in a collaboration project anyway. In any event, of course Kickstarter is not without risks, and most people should know they may lose out if the developer fails to deliver for whatever reason.

To me, it seems like a legit kickstarter and company. You can see a picture of them under the Who We Are section when they went to a recent computer games exhibition in Germany called "Gamescom" to show off their game and try to generate interest/publicity, would they really go to this much trouble if it was all a scam? And where would they get all of the gaming footage? (assuming everything is fake)

Anyway, to sum up (sorry for the length of this) I feel very safe in participating on this kickstarter, and as you can see, I try to make sure to investigate things and avoid scams, just as a matter of routine.

Originally Posted by Morrandir
Which of course is a personal opinion.

But…it's the RIGHT personal opinion.

I actually agree that a spoken line or two is great for setting the tone of a character though, but to me full voice overs are just a total waste of money and annoying at that. Combat barks are almost mandatory though.

I backed of course. I got a question for @HobGoblin42 though, will you have any add-ons for the pledges? I would really like to add a second copy of the game to my pledge so I can donate it to a future Watch giveaway.

Also backed the game. 20€ was a good KS price tag. 25€ now for non-early bird might be a bit pricey/risky for someone without history (well, at least I have never heared of them). On the other hand the footage they show is already quite good and polished looking, so at least they got more than just promises to show.

Seems like they are making this game just for me. How could I not donate? I may even have to kick my donation up a notch after some updates.

There are many games out there that are voiced and they are always better than they would be, if there weren't voised.
The opinion that games are better with no voice is somewhat…eccentric.
Voice and music gives atmosfere in games.
I will never bother to play a game with no voice when there are so many similar or better games voiced!!
They must put a goal for voice cover. I will buck them, if they do that.
I will not bother with the game if they do not!!

Originally Posted by griniaris
There are many games out there that are voiced and they are always better than they would be, if there weren't voised.
The opinion that games are better with no voice is somewhat…eccentric.
Voice and music gives atmosfere in games.
I will never bother to play a game with no voice when there are so many similar or better games voiced!!
They must put a goal for voice cover. I will buck them, if they do that.
I will not bother with the game if they do not!!

I don't think that almost nobody will say that a voice-over is worse then having no voice-over. But that's assuming it's the same game other wise.

Point is, voice overs costs tons of money to do, and massively limit the game.

So its not just voice over vs no voice over but:

One dialogue with no choices and voice over

vs

Two dialogues with 3 choices each and no voice overs.

And yeah…I'd probably vote for the second.

Re: the ridiculous demand that they put in a fully voiced game.

Oh well. You really think a small indie developer is going to spring for the great expense of a fully voiced game, with this much text?? You must be crazy! This is not Obsidian, they don't have that much money.

Full voiceacting is a luxury. I appreciate it when it's there, but it shouldn't be a priority.

Games that have the capability to include it without limiting the scope should do so.

LHow do we know its going to have a lot of texts? There isn't even certainty on how long the game is going to be judging by comment in kickstarter page. And I don't presume there will be much character development via dialogues looking at the game info.

Because they give an example of text in the video. It looks to be similar to how much text that Baldur's Gate had, just going by the example shown. And even Baldur's Gate was not fully voiced, just a line or two here and there, and they also were a major studio with much more money at the time, definitely not a tiny indie developer on a shoestring budget..

Also, look at their budgeting for the kickstarter money they get, the bulk of the money is going towards more writing….which means more text in the dialogues, at least it is a reasonable expectation.

Originally Posted by Kordanor
One dialogue with no choices and voice over

vs

Two dialogues with 3 choices each and no voice overs.

And yeah…I'd probably vote for the second.

PoE2 is fully voiceacted and has no shortage of dialog or choices.

Disagree. I saw the video and didn't feel like there will be tonnes of dialogues. This game seem to be more focused on combat and exploration imo. I would prefer partial voicing but I'm not fussed either way. Yes, I saw the funding allocation and glad more money is going into writing but writing =/= dialogues only.

RE: Re: the ridiculous demand that they put in a fully voiced game.

Watch your language!!
I will not tolerate personal attacks.


My opinion is logical.

I can understand the opposite, and i can respect it, if it will be expressed politely.

But the developer can make a goal in their campaign, for professional voiced.

Any sensible gamer can understood that. It's simple logic, not rocket science.

Personal attacks? I didn't even mention your name…I can have my own opinion about your demand. Because that is what it sounds like. I used no foul language either.

$100,000 is nothing for a big and complex rpg game, I'm sure you understand that. So they are already operating on a shoestring budget. As silver coin said, voice acting is a luxury. I think I heard that voice acting for Pillars of Eternity (or it might have been for Divinity Original Sin, I forget) ended up being $200,000 or something. How could they afford that, these guys are not rich or part of a major game studio.

I just happen to think that it's an unrealistic goal. Sure, they could put in a future goal for partial or full voice acting, but they probably need that money just to finish the game and follow through on their promises already.

Not really. Because something like this COULD change the scope (towards more streamlined dialogues). Also like additional localizations or having the game available for additional Operating systems, lots of people who already backed just don't care.

If I only speak english I don't care about the game being translated into spanish. And someone spanish will not back if it's not localized. So having translations as stretch goal is never a good idea.

And I think with voice acting it's somewhat similar. Only english speakers would profit, unless you do it for all languages. And it looks like they have a big German focus, so people would expect to have German voice actors as well.
And as POE2 was brought up: While they have a big enough audience to be able to pay for full voice acting, it was not big enough to also do it for other languages.

So yeah…voice acting can be a nice to have, but I think that's something which might be best decided before or afterwards, like Larian did. While I don't think Voice Acting is a horrible stretch goal, I also don't think its a very good one.