Kingmaker - Review @ Gamebanshee

I enjoyed Clangeddin's name for it: "Patchfinder: Bugmaker -- Tales from the Loading Screen"

I wouldn't exactly call their reactions swift, there is no way they didn't know some of the existing issues when it was released. I do give them credit for fixing many of the issues, and I'm a huge fan of the game up to the point where I parked it, but putting out a game in this state was not smart. With some luck and hard work, most of this will only be remembered by a few in a couple of months' time.

Originally Posted by Carnifex
I wouldn't exactly call their reactions swift, there is no way they didn't know some of the existing issues when it was released. I do give them credit for fixing many of the issues, and I'm a huge fan of the game up to the point where I parked it, but putting out a game in this state was not smart. With some luck and hard work, most of this will only be remembered by a few in a couple of months' time.

Its been released for just over a month, I think it was quite swift. Obviously I'd preferred it if it was less buggy on release but still I think they did well considering the size/content of this game.

Well I never seen a bugged game get so much praise. If this was a Bethesda or BioWare game the thread would be full of snide jokes and other negative opinions.

Remind me when it was acceptable to release a game in this state and call it a success?

Originally Posted by rjshae
I enjoyed Clangeddin's name for it: "Patchfinder: Bugmaker -- Tales from the Loading Screen"

Ha I love that I'm going to make a meme out that slogan.

I'm finding Pathfinder a hindrance. The exponential wizards and linear fighters, the huge power disparity between classes and across levels, the power gaming BS builds the PNP game allows resulting in inflated monster stats.
The Kingmaker systems are otherwise cool, it's a shame they're built on something inherently broken.
PoE 2 and DOS 2 are my favourites this year.

Totally agree with this review : Pathfinder Kingmaker is, despite its bugs (which are fewer and fewer after each update) an excellent game and a real surprise especially since it required me more than 150 hours to finish. So definitively in my top 2 of the year with Kingdom Come Deliverance. Difficult to say which of them I prefer.

Goty 2018 for me as well. Buggy on release might be but dont remember such dedication in hotfix and patch releasing in case of cRPGs of similar scale. Personally encountered more bugs in PoE2. Neverheless I understand other people might have different experience as there are many variables at play here.

Oh well guess this might sound rude but seems gamer standards have gone downhill ever since digital overtook physical sales. Nowadays digital makes patching easy.

So it made it all the more common that a lot of them get fixed after release. This practice would of been called out before in the past, buts it's widely accepted nowadays.

Personally in my own opinion if your game needs 15 patches in the first two months something is wrong, and its not something you should be praised for.

I don't care if I enjoyed the game I'm just starting to hate this devolper/buyer mindset.

I get annoyed by buggy game just as anyone else. Especially if I like the game and the bugs are spoiling my enjoyment. But perhaps I remember the old days differently as per my memories the games were just as buggy as they are today. At those times I was young, with less patience and there was no internet to get hotfix to your game already day after release. So yes, perhaps I dont see today situation as very dramatic.

Oh yeah, Troika games were physical and still amazingly bugged on release, heh. In fact, they still are!

That being said, this is the first time I got that Troika vibe in a while. It's definitely the most buggy game I've played in quite some time. It beats MEA by a landslide, and that one got hammered for being buggy. Of course, MEA is an AAA game, so it should have had more polish and testing.

Troika closed down due to buggy games and low sales. Let that be a lesson to this devolper. So after this I'm done as I hate debating with fanatical defenders of games.

So lets start this game was made with a few million dollars not just the $900,000 from kickstarter. It had a publisher, backer money, and other private investors.

When you convert that to Russian currency it's almost three times that amount. So it's not an indie made on a string budget, and the bugs well don't surprise me.

As I made my thoughts know on how Russian games were mostly bug ridden under-performers. Especially the RPGs, and it looks like I was probably right again.

Anyway one lesson the internet teaches you is you can never change a persons personal opinion, and so I wont bother. It's easier stating mine and leaving the thread.

Originally Posted by Couchpotato
Troika colsed down due to buggy games and low sales. Let that be a lesson to this devolper.

Couch has a good point. Though everyone enjoyed Troika's games, they suffered diminishing sales with each release. When you have the reputation of releasing buggy games, people won't buy your game on release (though they may buy it later) which we've already heard can be deadly in an enviornment where publishers measure success in units sold during the first 3 months.

Wow .. As if we were still living in some past dimension, are we? Games were certainly not that complex years ago even if some were awesome anyway and there was no or few Internet.

You bought a buggy game, you got a buggy game and you had all the chances in the world to get stuck with a buggy game unless you happened to tumble on some magazine throwing at you a floppy disk with some patches. And that was if you were lucky enough to live in the same country than the publisher/developer.

As for Bethesda and all those guys, they release buggy games but they certainly do not own their shit and expect/wait for the community to make their game any better which eventually happens.
We will judge Bethesda on their own merits with Fallout 76. Their game, their IP and a closed environment only them can correct.
Until now it looks bleak and bad and crappy. But, who knows?

Originally Posted by ChatMiauleur
Wow .. As if we were still living in some past dimension, are we? Games were certainly not that complex years ago even if some were awesome anyway and there was no or few Internet.

You bought a buggy game, you got a buggy game and you had all the chances in the world to get stuck with a buggy game unless you happened to tumble on some magazine throwing at you a floppy disk with some patches. And that was if you were lucky enough to live in the same country than the publisher/developer.

As for Bethesda and all those guys, they release buggy games but they certainly do not own their shit and expect/wait for the community to make their game any better which eventually happens.
We will judge Bethesda on their own merits with Fallout 76. Their game, their IP and a closed environment only them can correct.
Until now it looks bleak and bad and crappy. But, who knows?

I have to agree, Bethesda releases super buggy games and then don't bother to fix for a long while (if ever).
Firaxis released Xcom 1, then it had campaign ending bugs from day 1 that they fixed only 2 months later.
Xcom 2 was released with engine in such poor state they had to make an expansion to fix their shit and even had the nerve to force people to pay to get those engine fixes.

Compare to this shit, Owlcat is a bright example. Yes their huge game was released buggy but they worked on it furiously. They are an example of how you should act if you release a game in such a state.

Originally Posted by Couchpotato
Oh well guess this might sound rude but seems gamer standards have gone downhill ever since digital overtook physical sales. Nowadays digital makes patching easy.

So it made it all the more common that a lot of them get fixed after release. This practice would of been called out before in the past, buts it's widely accepted nowadays.

I'm still surprised people PAY to be in an actual beta. But you are right, when a product is released and its still buggy AF something is wrong.

That's the bottom line for me, no matter how much I might enjoy a product, being released in this state is virtually unforgivable. Sure, I might enjoy the game, even grow to love it, but the state in which it was first released is something I'll never forget. It has a real impact.

Virtually unforgivable is the fact I had to wait 18 years for unknown russian developer to give me BG2 successor finally … :-)

So is Pathfinder Kingmaker any good ?

I'm with Couch & Co.

I cannot stand such a level of buggyness and they surely knew the state their game was in before releasing.

The fact that this game, despite the plethora of grave bugs, is getting praised left and right in this community (which, I think, is composed mostly of mature players) is what astounds me the most.

This should not get the support it's been getting. I think players should wait until the bugs are ironed out and buy it at a discount.

By praising it so much and stimulating the purchase of this mess at launch, we, as consumers, are signaling that it's OK to sell a half-baked product and finish it later, AKA selling a beta as if it were 1.0. Amazing how some folks think this is super cool when they arr actually paying to test the game.

This game will and should be bashed with great vigor, in the hopes that modern devs learn some decency and respect towards their customers, which are not (well, not all of them) fanboy zombies.

Originally Posted by purpleblob
Its been released for just over a month, I think it was quite swift. Obviously I'd preferred it if it was less buggy on release but still I think they did well considering the size/content of this game.

But you have to acknowledge that we aren't an average gamer and won't ragequit just because of a bug or two (or five). Problem is that an average gamer is not only likely to do so but will also spread his/her bad experiences as widely as possible.