Kingmaker - Review @ Gamebanshee

It has gotten some rave reviews from some here at rpg watch. Overall, the opinion is mixed on the steam reviews page. Some praise it greatly and say it hearkens back to classics like Baldur's Gate series, others are giving it bad reviews because they say its a buggy mess and unacceptable release state.

As for me, I plan on getting it for sure, when it is more patched up. I think it will be a game that will be right up my alley. I like the positive things said about the game. And bugs can be fixed, and other improvements like the new phrase I am seeing, "quality of life" improvements can be put into the game.

I am reading the review of a guy on Steam giving him a negative feedback because of bugs but he has clocked 159 hours in it. Another complains about the same but has 185 hours.

It is all very strange but at the same time very telling about the quality of the game itself.

The game is really enjoyable and fun right from the start and the creation of your char but I am still waiting for 1.1 which should be out between today and the 16 Nov.

Originally Posted by arthureloi
I'm with Couch & Co.

I cannot stand such a level of buggyness and they surely knew the state their game was in before releasing.

The fact that this game, despite the plethora of grave bugs, is getting praised left and right in this community (which, I think, is composed mostly of mature players) is what astounds me the most.

This should not get the support it's been getting. I think players should wait until the bugs are ironed out and buy it at a discount.

By praising it so much and stimulating the purchase of this mess at launch, we, as consumers, are signaling that it's OK to sell a half-baked product and finish it later, AKA selling a beta as if it were 1.0. Amazing how some folks think this is super cool when they arr actually paying to test the game.

This game will and should be bashed with great vigor, in the hopes that modern devs learn some decency and respect towards their customers, which are not (well, not all of them) fanboy zombies.

While I understand what you are saying I dont feel obliged to analyze the impact of my positive user review on videogame market before I allow myself to post my honest opinion. I bought the game week after release and Im playing it ever since. I encountered few minor bugs and thats it and I enjoy it very much. That is my experience and I believe sharing it doesnt make me fanboy. It actually can be just simple as that

Originally Posted by arthureloi
I'm with Couch & Co.

I cannot stand such a level of buggyness and they surely knew the state their game was in before releasing.

The fact that this game, despite the plethora of grave bugs, is getting praised left and right in this community (which, I think, is composed mostly of mature players) is what astounds me the most.

This should not get the support it's been getting. I think players should wait until the bugs are ironed out and buy it at a discount.

By praising it so much and stimulating the purchase of this mess at launch, we, as consumers, are signaling that it's OK to sell a half-baked product and finish it later, AKA selling a beta as if it were 1.0. Amazing how some folks think this is super cool when they arr actually paying to test the game.

This game will and should be bashed with great vigor, in the hopes that modern devs learn some decency and respect towards their customers, which are not (well, not all of them) fanboy zombies.

Cant agree more! It is the same route as how now we have norm for "free" to play crap, paying for beta tests, cash shops, microtransactions - we, gamers, supported it and it is because of us game companies do all this shit!

So now we are up to buy half made games for full price with promises to patch it to full game one day?

It is not half game, it is a full game and it is not a promise, they are patching it.
16 patches since the first day and a huge one in the coming days.

After that, people can do some sitting to complain about bugs it will change nothing. We are past the time when a DEV Studio decided a game was ready to launch. Now it is strictly a business decision by the producers and the publishers with a pure Risk assessment.

We can only judge the quality of a Studio by the follow up and the support they do on their games. Some like Bethesda never cared, this one does.

Originally Posted by arthureloi
I'm with Couch & Co.

I cannot stand such a level of buggyness and they surely knew the state their game was in before releasing.

The fact that this game, despite the plethora of grave bugs, is getting praised left and right in this community (which, I think, is composed mostly of mature players) is what astounds me the most.

This should not get the support it's been getting. I think players should wait until the bugs are ironed out and buy it at a discount.

By praising it so much and stimulating the purchase of this mess at launch, we, as consumers, are signaling that it's OK to sell a half-baked product and finish it later, AKA selling a beta as if it were 1.0. Amazing how some folks think this is super cool when they arr actually paying to test the game.

This game will and should be bashed with great vigor, in the hopes that modern devs learn some decency and respect towards their customers, which are not (well, not all of them) fanboy zombies.

I think you’re exaggerating a bit. There’s not that much praise as far as I can see. Most of the praise is posted by a couple posters.

If you take out purpleblob and fluent’s praise I’d say the reception is mostly negative due to the bugs.

Also, purpleblob is acknowledging the bugs but saying she’s enjoying the game despite them. Seems reasonable and not fanboyish imo.

I bought the game and shelved it because of hearing about the late game bugs I actually didn’t encounter any bugs in the very short time I played it. So the negative bug talk is having an impact.

Not sure why they didn’t just release it as early access to try and mitigate some of the negativity.

Originally Posted by arthureloi
I'm with Couch & Co.

I cannot stand such a level of buggyness and they surely knew the state their game was in before releasing.

The fact that this game, despite the plethora of grave bugs, is getting praised left and right in this community (which, I think, is composed mostly of mature players) is what astounds me the most.

This should not get the support it's been getting. I think players should wait until the bugs are ironed out and buy it at a discount.

By praising it so much and stimulating the purchase of this mess at launch, we, as consumers, are signaling that it's OK to sell a half-baked product and finish it later, AKA selling a beta as if it were 1.0. Amazing how some folks think this is super cool when they arr actually paying to test the game.

This game will and should be bashed with great vigor, in the hopes that modern devs learn some decency and respect towards their customers, which are not (well, not all of them) fanboy zombies.

I think you missed the points of the praise…

People are hungry for a good D&D based game and they haven't had that in ages. So Kingmaker comes out with bugs and all, but its still quenching their thirst for it. Thats all that matters and bug be damned.

I think there surely is a quite unhealthy dose of undue praising, yes. A lot of media outlets are giving the bugs offhand remarks and counting on the future patches to fix it all up, thus not giving the low score the game deserves, consequently not giving the devs the bad rep they deserve.

As for purple and fluent, I see fanboyism involved, even in purple's case, who, in my opinion, is generally pretty reasonable in her assessments. But no doubt her review will be super sugar coated. I see an 8 or more out of 10, which, to me, is unacceptable and just endorses the malpractice behaviour the game market is so full of today.

As for Fluent I won't even elaborate, as he's always rabid and one sided as far as any game he likes is concerned, so I just tend to disconsider his say.

I wish the negative talk had a better and more effective impact, as buying and shelving is no good. The solution in this case would be either boycotting it altogether, or, as I think is the best course of action, waiting for the bug squashing and buying it at a huge discount. That would teach devs that the market should be consumer bound, and not company bound.

Originally Posted by sakichop
I think you’re exaggerating a bit. There’s not that much praise as far as I can see. Most of the praise is posted by a couple posters.

If you take out purpleblob and fluent’s praise I’d say the reception is mostly negative due to the bugs.

Also, purpleblob is acknowledging the bugs but saying she’s enjoying the game despite them. Seems reasonable and not fanboyish imo.

I bought the game and shelved it because of hearing about the late game bugs I actually didn’t encounter any bugs in the very short time I played it. So the negative bug talk is having an impact.

Not sure why they didn’t just release it as early access to try and mitigate some of the negativity.

What is the number of bugs acceptable for you to remove your boycott? 0? 10? 15?

There are people having played this game more than 180 hours and who are complaining about bugs. This is totally irrational.

I'm not sure if I stated this in the past, but the main reason I parked the game is that I was enjoying the absolute heck out of it, and didn't want to encounter any of the nasty bugs that I'd heard so much about. Now, I stopped in chapter two during some troll invasion, and I know I probably lost some quests due to unseemly timers, but I never did run into any game stopping bugs. Stopping my play seemed reasonable, as I didn't want rage to enter a game that I was loving, and look forward to enjoying again in the near future.

Every piece of hardware has bugs. There is no number of bugs after which squashing one would say "it's enough now".

The fact is that the amount of game breaking bugs here was too high and severely hampered or completely stopped a lot of consumers from reaching the end.

This is just not acceptable to us as consumers and should be opposed with energy. Accepting this is just an act of desperation, in my opinion. I think the CRPG community should be a little more demanding, lest we look like desperate starving dogs waiting for the next morcel thrown at us, disconsidering the quality of the food offered.

Originally Posted by ChatMiauleur
What is the number of bugs acceptable for you to remove your boycott? 0? 10? 15?

There are people having played this game more than 180 hours and who are complaining about bugs. This is totally irrational.

That is wrong and you should be able to enjoy your game from the get go, instead of having to wait. Accepting this is, in my opinion, irrational.

Originally Posted by Carnifex
I'm not sure if I stated this in the past, but the main reason I parked the game is that I was enjoying the absolute heck out of it, and didn't want to encounter any of the nasty bugs that I'd heard so much about. Now, I stopped in chapter two during some troll invasion, and I know I probably lost some quests due to unseemly timers, but I never did run into any game stopping bugs. Stopping my play seemed reasonable, as I didn't want rage to enter a game that I was loving, and look forward to enjoying again in the near future.

I agree, one should be able to enjoy the game from start to finish, but in this case it just didn't seem likely. My solution simply served me that, in parking the game for now, I didn't let the errors/mistakes forever taint my opinion on the project. I consider myself blessed with patience, but I completely understand that my solution wouldn't be ideal for everyone.

Purple went in on the kickstarter so, boycotting is not available in the first place. Unless you expect her to not play the game at all just because it has bugs in it. Of course that is her choice.

Whether Fluent was also part of the kickstarter campaign, I don't know.

It isn't just them who have been praising the Kingmaker game here at rpg watch. I have seen many others say they consider it a great game.

Originally Posted by arthureloi
(…) The solution in this case would be either boycotting it altogether, or, as I think is the best course of action, waiting for the bug squashing and buying it at a huge discount (…)

That's what I plan to do.

Originally Posted by Wisdom
I'm still surprised people PAY to be in an actual beta. But you are right, when a product is released and its still buggy AF something is wrong.

Damn right, I'm beta testing now for 1.1 lol. I'm enjoying it heaps, I don't mind it at all.

Originally Posted by sakichop
Also, purpleblob is acknowledging the bugs but saying she’s enjoying the game despite them. Seems reasonable and not fanboyish imo.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by arthureloi
As for purple and fluent, I see fanboyism involved, even in purple's case, who, in my opinion, is generally pretty reasonable in her assessments. But no doubt her review will be super sugar coated. I see an 8 or more out of 10, which, to me, is unacceptable and just endorses the malpractice behaviour the game market is so full of today.

Thanks for prejudging my review before you even read it. Perhaps you are judging the game in same way?

Yes, I'm probably going to end up giving it a 8/10 - you may disagree with my assessment but please reserve your judgement until you actually read the article and see where I am coming from with the score.

This is going to be MaylanderGate #2 lol.

Originally Posted by Arkadia7
Purple went in on the kickstarter so, boycotting is not available in the first place. Unless you expect her to not play the game at all just because it has bugs in it. Of course that is her choice.

I don't understand this mindset, people supported it in kickstarter so they will praise it for sure. No. If I don't like the game, regardless of how much I've spent on it, I will call out as it is - whether it is good or not.

I'm genuinely enjoying Kingmaker. I spent $120 AUD, literally beta testing it for Owlcats even now, and I don't regret it. Although the final dungeon really soured my fun for me sigh.

And no, I wasn't kickstarter supporter. I got early access tier but I did so closer to the full release.

I never judge software by the number of bugs, maybe because I'm a developer myself. Bugs can be fixed.

I judge games by

1. Is it innovative and interesting?
2. Do I want to play it 'til the end?

1. Pathfinder: Kingmaker is innovative and at the same time it picks good mechanics from old classics - well done!
2. Since I started the game I play it every free minute - best sign for a good game.

Boycotting a game like this is brilliant. Let's teach those nasty devs a lesson for releasing a game with bugs! That will teach them next time they try that…oh wait, there won't be a next time because we've boycotted them. Well good! Who needs ambitious and deep CRPGs anyway!? After all, they had a whopping $900k to work with! It should be perfection beyond perfection for that price! And there's so many other RPG devs making ambitious dream projects that we just have loads to choose from. Please.

I've played over 300 hours now and have had no game-breaking bugs. I'd rate it a 9/10 for me but I haven't been into Act 5 and beyond yet, but the early game is excellent. Huge variety of builds and complex character building to play with, vast world with a lot of choices to make as baron, nooks to poke around in and find stories, varied monsters or treasures, very ambitious with a lot of fun-filled playtime, challenging combat that requires you to actually use items and spells at your disposal to succeed, timers that enhance the game's dynamism to make it feel as though your barony really is under your control and that your choices matter, alignment-based choices and consequences, skill checks galore (sometimes even double or triple checks in the same event), complex and lengthy companion questlines and more. I've had minor bugs that I don't really care about, let alone would boycott the game for. If someone thinks boycotting a minor budget Kickstarter RPG is the thing to do because of bugs then might as well just forget about Kickstarter and playing games. The devs had little to work with and still made an incredibly deep and delicious CRPG out of it, best one by far since Baldur's Gate and even have the nobility to continue patching it very swiftly as blobby mentioned. To act and feel you're entitled to a perfect product when this game is 10x more complex than other CRPGs on the market is irrational if you want to see more ambitious CRPGs. I applaud the devs for even trying a game like this when they could have easily caved and made a tight 30 hour linear game. I want to see more ambitious dream projects so I support them for this reason.

I think it's an incorrect assumption that the developer is somehow "getting away" with releasing a buggy game. I have no doubt they are paying a serious price in terms of lost sales due to the negative word of mouth.

I really, really want to play this game, but I have not bought it yet, because of my concern about bugs. And I know I am not alone (there are several people in this very thread who have said the same thing, and countless more on Steam).

Just because somebody did choose to buy it, and still likes it despite any bugs, that's not a reflection of the overall gaming community "rewarding" dev's for releasing a game early. That's just a reflection of that one person's personal taste.

I'm really hoping I can jump in after 1.1, but of course I'll gauge the reaction to it before doing so (as will many, many other people, I'm sure…).

Launching a game is a business decision from publishers and producers. Boycotting a game or waiting for a sale to punish them is impacting the DEV studio and only them. It just proves than this kind of games is not a good idea financially.

Those guys are behaving as correctly as they can supporting and patching their game as fast as they can. Their behavior is way better than many bigger studios.