Dirty Devs: Grimoire Developer Threatens Defamation Lawsuit

Lol, this showed up. Anyone know more about this? Silly codexians.

The vehemence and style of his objection suggests there's some truth in there.

Besides the truth that Grimoire is a somewhat crappy, of course.

Careful what you're saying otherwise the suit could spread… On the whole internet when you think about Grimoire reactions everywhere.

In that case, I will balance my previous statement by saying that I think making private complaints public is a poor move. Even if those complaints seem to be quite obnoxious.

I am actually very impressed with the game Grimoire, its one of the most content filled Indie games I have played and the content as a whole is of quite good quality. It is a love letter to Wizardry 7, in both good and bad ways, but if you like that sort of game, Grimoire really is quite good. I want to divorce my comment though from the developer, who is an extremely controversial individual for a wide variety of reasons, which have been discussed ad naseum on this forum.

This reviewer goes on for 2.5 minutes before he actually says anything. He is so late to the party when it comes to Cleve. He missed the incline. Codex, as usual, is trying to take credit for Cleve when, as usual, they are late to our own party. Right @Corwin and @rjshae?

Like Forgottenlor, I really enjoyed Grimoire with the one play through that I've done to date, and know I'll be replaying it in the future. It's just really my kind of game, regardless of who made it, or why.

Hey wow - someone linked The Dot on the steam comments trying to find sock puppets of Cleve (they are likely codexers).

One of the accounts in questions was a certain "Baf"

Private Ryan
1 day ago
Well I did some digging into this and found a Vincent "Baff" Austin who was a writer for RPGDot in the early 2000s where they often covered Grimoire ( https://web.archive.org/web/20080407…8740d21b63214f ) and who also regularly posted on the RPGCodex thread about the game under the user name "Baff". Nothing's for certain obviously, but I'd say this particular insinuation about the dev reviewing his own game might need a bit more evidence behind it 

That video isn't a review. He isn't trying to talk about the game at all. He's talking about threats of lawsuits he is receiving currently, so it's not as if he's missed any party. In the video he said that he was planning to look into crap surrounding Grimoire some time ago, but never got around to it.

SidAlpha does do reviews (or at least early impression videos) but this isn't one of them. Most of his time is spent talking about dumb things people in the game industry do, including throwing around copyright strikes or threatening to sue people who leave negative feedback or say things that game developers don't like. I'd hardly expect him to refrain from discussing threats he is just now receiving regardless of how much other coverage the situation had received in the past.

Originally Posted by epithumia
That video isn't a review. He isn't trying to talk about the game at all. He's talking about threats of lawsuits he is receiving currently, so it's not as if he's missed any party. In the video he said that he was planning to look into crap surrounding Grimoire some time ago, but never got around to it.

SidAlpha does do reviews (or at least early impression videos) but this isn't one of them. Most of his time is spent talking about dumb things people in the game industry do, including throwing around copyright strikes or threatening to sue people who leave negative feedback or say things that game developers don't like. I'd hardly expect him to refrain from discussing threats he is just now receiving regardless of how much other coverage the situation had received in the past.

Late to the Party is accurate. This is just Cleve being Cleve and this guy is coming off self-righteous is spite of what of what he thinks of himself. Some people a little wiser than him pointed out the other suit Cleve threatened over another game called Grimoire on Steam so he needs to catch up in history lesson.. This Sid character should have counted it as an honor to be noticed by Neanderthal genes instead of treating this as something rational.

Thanks for posting this Bobo. We haven't had enough Grimoire news lately. It doesn't look like the sequel will get done before the manual unfortunately.

And on that note, hey @Myrthos, who is Vincent "Baff" Austin?

Cleve threatens to sue anyone who says anything negative about him or his game, even if (hell, especially if) it is 100% true.

If he doesn't want to get called out in public, maybe he shouldn't threaten frivolous lawsuits.

He also bans people who criticize his game from his Steam forum.

Can't believe there are people here defending this guy.

Originally Posted by Lucky Day
And on that note, hey @Myrthos, who is Vincent "Baff" Austin?

I don't know. Doesn't ring a bell. Then again, for me bells don't ring so loud anymore

If he was writing for RPGDot in the early 2000's, he certainly did not leave a lasting impression, but I can check the RPGDot database for that, if I don't forget that is…

Originally Posted by HellRazor
Can't believe there are people here defending this guy.

You sure someone defends him? Didn't notice.

Yes, there are people defending the game and it's okay. If it was released 20 years ago I'd probably defend it too. Got spoiled with hairworks and have no desire to defend anything that doesn't feature it in 2018.

But you know me. Outdated stuff to me usually means get off my property. That includes linear stories in rpgs and meaningless filler sidequests.

Originally Posted by HellRazor
Cleve threatens to sue anyone who says anything negative about him or his game, even if (hell, especially if) it is 100% true.

If he doesn't want to get called out in public, maybe he shouldn't threaten frivolous lawsuits.

He also bans people who criticize his game from his Steam forum.

Can't believe there are people here defending this guy.

If you're referring to me, I think you misread my post. I liked Guns N' Roses music too, despite what I think of Axl Rose. I also happen to really like Wizardry games, and Grimoire is a good wizardry clone, despite who made it. If you're going to condemn stuff because of who made it, there is oh so much stuff to condemn, we can start with Orff's Carmina Burana or Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries, for example, and go on from there.

Originally Posted by HellRazor
Cleve threatens to sue anyone who says anything negative about him or his game, even if (hell, especially if) it is 100% true.

If he doesn't want to get called out in public, maybe he shouldn't threaten frivolous lawsuits.

He also bans people who criticize his game from his Steam forum.

Can't believe there are people here defending this guy.

How is this different from Richard Garriot and Scam of the Avatar? Seems to be an accepted practice.

Originally Posted by HellRazor
Cleve threatens to sue anyone who says anything negative about him or his game, even if (hell, especially if) it is 100% true.

If he doesn't want to get called out in public, maybe he shouldn't threaten frivolous lawsuits.

He also bans people who criticize his game from his Steam forum.

Can't believe there are people here defending this guy.

My favourites are the ones who spent $50 on this, on the promise of the price never being reduced, and think they're on the inside with Cleve in some clever ironic joke.

Originally Posted by forgottenlor
If you're referring to me, I think you misread my post. I liked Guns N' Roses music too, despite what I think of Axl Rose. I also happen to really like Wizardry games, and Grimoire is a good wizardry clone, despite who made it. If you're going to condemn stuff because of who made it, there is oh so much stuff to condemn, we can start with Orff's Carmina Burana or Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries, for example, and go on from there.

To me at least, a big question here is "who gets the money"? (And also "what does the money get used for). H.P Lovecraft might have been a bit of a racist, but if I buy a book by him now, does he get any money? No, of course not, he's been dead since 1937. If I buy a book by Orson Scott Card, he gets some of the money, and he uses his money to fund things I really don't agree with, so I don't buy books from Orson Scott Card.
There are obviously degrees, someone might be a bit of a jerk, but mostly harmless, at most saying something hurtful at times. Or someone might be spewing vitriol constantly and using their followers to harm other.
And in the case of Grimoire I feel like its author falls under the second category, thus I'm not going to buy their game, as I really don't want to support the individual behind it.

Originally Posted by Fnord
To me at least, a big question here is "who gets the money"? (And also "what does the money get used for). H.P Lovecraft might have been a bit of a racist, but if I buy a book by him now, does he get any money? No, of course not, he's been dead since 1937. If I buy a book by Orson Scott Card, he gets some of the money, and he uses his money to fund things I really don't agree with, so I don't buy books from Orson Scott Card.
There are obviously degrees, someone might be a bit of a jerk, but mostly harmless, at most saying something hurtful at times. Or someone might be spewing vitriol constantly and using their followers to harm other.
And in the case of Grimoire I feel like its author falls under the second category, thus I'm not going to buy their game, as I really don't want to support the individual behind it.

I have no problem if you feel this way, and I can respect your choice. I think its one thing though to take a stand on something and another to berate others who don't follow one's own ideals. I am a fundemental believer in tolerance and freedom of speech and thought. By the way I have read lots of Orson Scott Card, and never knew his political views, but for me its relatively irrelavent, because I judge art on its own merits and not on the personality of its creator.

Originally Posted by Ripper
My favourites are the ones who spent $50 on this, on the promise of the price never being reduced, and think they're on the inside with Cleve in some clever ironic joke.

I paid full price and really enjoy the game. I don't regret that at all, even if the game gets reduced in future. It's not about being in on a joke particularly. I'm looking forward to V2 and plan on beating it this time.

Words are cheap; lets see him try the lawsuit….