Kingmaker - Season Pass Details

TW3 sold well, yep, that's nice. Move along, nothing new to see here.

Btw, Kingmaker's recent rating has been changed to "very positive"

Also, Couch, the loading time has improved significantly with patch 1.1. But if you have already labelled it loading simulator, so be it. Your loss I will continue to enjoy this gem

Yeah I know basically this right? Keep my mouth shut & my opinion to myself.

More like, stick to the topic as you have asked me to in PoE2 thread

Why you guys hijack most PoE 2 threads to praise Kingmaker: Pathfider.

I did apologise and stopped when you asked. If you are looking to pick up a fight, have fun, I'm going to bed

Originally Posted by purpleblob
I did apologise and stopped when you asked. If you are looking to pick up a fight, have fun, I'm going to bed

Nah just messing with you. My target is somebody else. So goodnight.

Originally Posted by Couchpotato
Yeah so passe right? Wonder why those games sell more.

Lets go ask Obsidian and inXile.

Wait they were bought by Microsoft.

Anyway rather play Witcher III then Pathfinder: Kingmaker The Loading Screen Simulator.

Sales were never a measure of quality, only a measure of casual market appeal.
For real RPG fans, saying that TW3 sold so well is a negative because that only means they made it more casual friendly.

This is why I don't expect anything from Cyberpunk. I expect another mass market focused game with a smidgeon of RPG mechanics.

TW1 was actually a proper RPG and it sold less than TW2 and TW3.

Mass Effect 1 has more RPG elements than ME2 and ME3, it sold less than those two.

Only example where more RPG elements did better than less is DAO vs DA2. Not sure how well DAI did in comparison to DAO.

Oblivion did better than Morrowind, Skyrim did better than Oblivion. Fo4 did better than Fo3. In all cases, there was a reduction to RPG elements to cater more to mass market casual audience. It would have also worked with Fo76 if they didn't fucked up the release with so many technical issues.

Also let me add that lots of games on mobile market have way more sales then TW3 and similar games, are they also better games?

Sorry but the facts and science speak louder then your opinon my good man.

I'll be surprised if this developer becomes more then a one hit wonder.

More sales means you stay in business.

Let ask these defunct and gone developers.

Troika Games
38 Studios
Ascaron
Black Isle Studios
Flagship Studios
Lionhead Studios

Now excuse me it's time for me to sleep.

Originally Posted by Couchpotato
Not when it gets a free pass while being a buggy & technical mess.

Also hate Elitists like Archangel above.

Nothing wrong with cutscenes in an RPG.

Oh wait another burn Witcher III actually had expansions the DLC was free.

Why are you calling me elitist?
Are you ashamed of liking these more casual games? You cannot stand losing your "street cred" of being a hardcore RPG player so you try to bring down those that still only enjoy those RPGs?

Just don't be ashamed what you are now and we are all happy.
Everyone likes different type of games. Just because someone enjoyed Hard Rock but now listens to Kate Perry does not make those that still enjoy Hard Rock elitists. It just makes you a Kate Perry fan that is somehow ashamed of it.

Originally Posted by Couchpotato
Oh look this was back in 2016.
Probably more now. How much has this game sold? Not as much.

I expect Cyberpunk 2077 to sell as much if not better.

Candy crush brings in almost a billion a year. Will you be telling us how great it is next.

Read through the thread and still can?t figure out why your comparing kingmaker with Witcher. Just to irritate kingmaker fans?

Anyway I?ll be buying all the dlc and play the game when everything is done and released.

I routinely read about people playing for 100+ hours. I can?t help but think they should have just made a 50 hour game. They could have probably released it in an acceptable state and been getting showered with praise now instead of getting hammered for bugs and poor end game.

Read through the thread and still can?t figure out why your comparing kingmaker with Witcher. Just to irritate kingmaker fans?

Yep to irritate fans of this game. Give this guy an award.

It's fans are strikingly similar to Bethesda apologists.

I will agree they had bugs when they were released but (a) they were still playable and (b) the most serious ones were fixed pretty quickly - if I remember correctly witcher 2 most serious bug was drm related and they promptly removed the drm (resulting in a lawsuit from their publishers); witcher 3 was very playable on day 1 but some of the bugs were annoying. Witcher 1 i just don't remember the state of the game on release - it has an odd combat that turns off folks but I think it also has the best overall story progression. witcher 3 story imho is the worse of the three in part because of the level of dilution by side quests; but it also had many side quests that were way better than the main story making them worth doing just for their stories.
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Anyway i haven't played kingmaker - the season pass looks really poor but i'll probably pick up the base game after a few more major patches.

Originally Posted by Couchpotato
Not when it gets a free pass while being a buggy & technical mess.

Also hate Elitists like Archangel above.

Nothing wrong with cutscenes in an RPG.

Oh wait another burn Witcher III actually had expansions the DLC was free.

Originally Posted by you
I will agree they had bugs when they were released but (a) they were still playable and (b) the most serious ones were fixed pretty quickly - if I remember correctly witcher 2 most serious bug was drm related and they promptly removed the drm (resulting in a lawsuit from their publishers); witcher 3 was very playable on day 1 but some of the bugs were annoying. Witcher 1 i just don't remember the state of the game on release - it has an odd combat that turns off folks but I think it also has the best overall story progression. witcher 3 story imho is the worse of the three in part because of the level of dilution by side quests; but it also had many side quests that were way better than the main story making them worth doing just for their stories.
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Anyway i haven't played kingmaker - the season pass looks really poor but i'll probably pick up the base game after a few more major patches.

All the witchers have been buggy on release. The enhanced edition was brought about because the first game was so buggy. CDPR actually patched in a letter on a skeleton in the Witcher 3 to apologize for how buggy it was.

Having said that and having completed the Witcher trilogy all 3 games were patched and in a very playable state when I got to them. So I have no complaints.

Given the patches that have already been released for kingmaker I have every faith that they will have the game in a very playable state by the time I get to it as well.

Originally Posted by Couchpotato
Yep to irritate fans of this game. Give this guy an award.

It's fans are strikingly similar to Bethesda apologists.

But hasn?t skyrim sold more than all the Witcher?s combined?

If it has, it's because it did a better job of catering to the mass market casual audience as Archangel mentioned above.

Not sure what any of this has to do with Kingmaker though.

Sales number - nothing. Bugs and apologists- everything.

Here's hope Owlcat won't leave any bugs to modders.

Originally Posted by JDR13
If it has, it's because it did a better job of catering to the mass market casual audience as Archangel mentioned above.

Not sure what any of this has to do with Kingmaker though.

Nothing I’m just having some fun with couch about how irrelevant sales numbers can be.

I mixed it in with relevant kingmaker discussion though.

Originally Posted by joxer
Sales number - nothing. Bugs and apologists- everything.

Here's hope Owlcat won't leave any bugs to modders.

They have been working on patching the game all this time and most of the issues are already fixed with 1.1. Another big patch coming around Christmas!

The Wildcards DLC has been delayed to next week.

About sales and quality - I don't think this is a simple concept.

You can actually combine mass market appeal with genuine quality, but obviously you need to accept what such a thing could never really be.

Of course, we would need to decide what quality is. Is quality about keeping people entertained for a couple of hours - or is quality about engaging people on a more profound level?

To add even more nuance to the formula, we must understand that some games or movies entertain SOME people a lot - and OTHER people a lot less - but they're all sufficiently entertained to buy the product or go see the movie.

For instance, one of the primary things that go counter to mass appeal is opacity - or complexity.

For obvious and natural reasons, you can't expect to appeal to everyone in the world - if your product is saturated with things that are hard to understand without a certain measure of experience.

For games. there are other kinds of qualities that don't necessarily translate to opacity or complex mechanics.

The same can be said for movies.

Personally, I would argue that Lord of the Rings (especially Fellowship of the Ring) is a great example of a mass market movie that's also very high quality and not at all superficial.

Godfather was a similar movie back in the 70s - and is pretty mainstream because of the subject matter, which isn't hard to grasp.

Something like Avatar - I would argue is about smart marketing, spectacle and technical innovation. It's an example of a mass market movie that's not of high quality in terms of script/characters/acting - but that's impossible to prove. It's just my opinion.

Transformers is an example of a movie that's even more extreme in that very same way, except it doesn't seem to innovate in technical terms.

For something in the middle - I would argue the majority of modern superhero movies are "average" quality movies with very strong mass market appeal. They're factory line products that are both well made, and based on a solid formula - but they don't go much beyond that.

In short, it's not that simple.