Knights of the Chalice II - Pre-Kickstarter Update

Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002
Found a video. I'm surprised he went with tokens given all the animation work and spell effects he is implementing. I find token abstraction difficult to relate to. I'd rather have to top of a character to look at even if it isn't animated. Even the Gold Box games have basic customization options on basic characters. Maybe he could add that to the Kickstarter?

Yeah, Battle Brothers is great but this is just off-putting to me. It's not a question of graphical fidelity - I'm a big fan of pixel graphics and have no issues with Jeff Vogel's art - but the level of abstraction with tokens just feels really glaring to me. Maybe it'll be a non-issue in practice, while actually playing the game, but I'm not optimistic.

Originally Posted by Carnifex
I'm assuming anyone else that purchased the first game will also get this email.

You assume correctly!

Originally Posted by screeg
You assume correctly!

Yeah me too, although I had to go digging around in my spam to find it. There's a link to the draft Kickstarter pitch, but there's not much there yet. I wonder where he'll set the goal in the end.

The update says "Work on the game was completed around 27 January." What's the Kickstarter actually for, then? Bizarre.

Originally Posted by suibhne
Yeah, Battle Brothers is great but this is just off-putting to me. It's not a question of graphical fidelity - I'm a big fan of pixel graphics and have no issues with Jeff Vogel's art - but the level of abstraction with tokens just feels really glaring to me. Maybe it'll be a non-issue in practice, while actually playing the game, but I'm not optimistic.

Vogel's basic little animated sprites are good enough to keep me engaged. I have the same issue with Battle Brothers too. I guess I'd rather have poor graphics than an abstraction. Chalice 1 had basic models and crude animations. Chalice 2 seems to have an improved engine and better looking environments. But the token thing is a downgrade.

Simplistic visuals notwithstanding, the encounter design in KOTC was excellent. Really tense and unforgiving - but never unfair - low-level D&D combat scenarios. Also, unlike some retro RPGs (the otherwise lovely Underrail comes to mind), KOTC respected your time and didn't try to be a massive open world experience with unnecessarily sprawling maps and in-game chores stacked on top of each other. This is handcrafted turn-based dungeon crawling at its finest.

I do wish he'd just release it and not do a kickstarter. Still extremely keen!

Originally Posted by purpleblob
Even if your friends (who are others) don't enjoy it?

Everyone has their nonstarters. There are some visuals I just can't stomache, which have prevented me from buying games that people seem to otherwise really enjoy and which might otherwise be up my alley. Voidspire Tactics and The Binding of Isaac come to mind. On the other hand there are a lot of games which I enjoy where others can't stomache the graphics. In a perfect world the developer would come up with a presentation that everyone would like. As it is, I always purchase a game based on whether I think I will enjoy it or not, and not based on issues others might have with a game. For example I buy so called phone games, games that might have coop, games with Japanese graphics, games named Grimoire, so-called SJW games, and Jeff Vogel games, and I enjoy them, despite the issues others might have with them. Because while I respect that others might have their own opinions, I'm buying the game for me and not them.

What a terrible art style. This gets a pass from me, sadly.

He could increase the quality of the visual aesthetic ten-fold by investing 50$ on some paid assets.

Hopefully the visuals will be something easy to replace with a mod. I mean just static Vogel quality figures would be better than tokens.

I might get it anyway but man those tokens are a distraction.

Originally Posted by Majnun
Hopefully the visuals will be something easy to replace with a mod. I mean just static Vogel quality figures would be better than tokens.

I might get it anyway but man those tokens are a distraction.

Even I could come up with significantly more attractive art - and I'm a shit artist.

WAR of THE BUTTONS!!!

As I bought his super amazing KOTC 1, I'll support his kickstarter campaign, just to bombard him with highly pleasant and absolutely non-annoying comments about the Desperately Important Need to use his Kickstarter funds to do animated characters, like the Magnificent Prequel, Knights of The Chalice 1. had! Who ever did that Troll character should be named in the Annals of the Kings and his/her name should be placed with golden letters in the Olympus Palace of Artists.

@Carnifex @forgottenlor

You guys misunderstood me. I was asking if it brings you a joy for buying a game for *your friends* who may not enjoy it. Of course you buy whatever games that interests you even if your friends don't agree.

Originally Posted by Carnifex
I'll buy copies for myself and friends, and that alone will give me joy.

Ahhh, yes, then I did misunderstand you. Then the fault would be mine, if I chose a gift for a friend and they didn't like it, that's a total failure on my part. I know people that would really enjoy this style of game, and others who would (and do) abhor it.

Day one purchase for me.

Yeah me too. In addition to the game, I'm looking forward to playing around with the editor and maybe making a couple of scenarios with it.

I'd have to hear something really awful to not support this kick starter the very day it launches.

Originally Posted by Carnifex
Ahhh, yes, then I did misunderstand you. Then the fault would be mine, if I chose a gift for a friend and they didn't like it, that's a total failure on my part. I know people that would really enjoy this style of game, and others who would (and do) abhor it.

I'm with you guys regarding "I buy what I like and don't care much about what others think". It's just… I had an experience of friends buying me a game they thought I'd like - turned out I didn't really enjoy the game but I didn't have heart to say so and it was a pain when they kept on asking if I enjoyed it, where I am up to, and enthusiastically asking me what I liked about the game.

Moral of the story - be honest I guess

Purple, I've had very similar conversations with friends over computer games given as gifts, and when the situation first arose, I initially saw it as a "problem". When I was questioned on my thoughts about the gift, I made sure that we had sufficient time for me to explain why it turned out not to be my kind of game, and in effect I turned this problem into an opportunity to learn and teach at the same time. Be open, always be honest, and stay true to yourself, in all things.

There is one bit of good news for committed fans like us: the token palette is designed to easily be swapped out, so players can replace the awful tokens with characters of any kind. Not animated of course, but there's definitely room for improvement. A quick search shows you can find collections of static fantasy characters online without even infringing anyone's copyright.

Though I'm skeptical this will help Pierre with the Kickstarter.