Phoenix Point - Epic Games Store Announcement

Epic games store has had only one "exclusive" game so far that I was interested in - the new Metro shooter game. Besides that, looks like a lot of crap games to me. Definitely nothing good enough that I need to install the game store onto my computer.

Originally Posted by Stingray
Obviously the people making Phoenix Point have run the numbers and decided that this will, in fact, be worth it. And I would have to assume that they're far more likely to be right than you are, due to having much more information that you don't have access to. Such as, for example, knowledge of whatever sweet deal Epic set them up with.

You can still (legally) play this game without Epic's client anyway, you just have to wait a year. Which is about the amount of time you should wait before playing any newly-released game these days anyway. It's not a big deal at all even if you're anti-Epic.

I'm not anti-Epic. You've put a lot of words into my mouth and made assumptions about what I think. Maybe you should reread my post, which you quoted.

Epic must have some crazy amounts of Fortnite money to throw at these developers to not care about pissing off customers. I'm annoyed at having to install another launcher with a walled off store.

I currently have Steam, Uplay, Origin, Battle.net, Galaxy, and now Epic Games installed on my computer. I try to keep as much of my library on steam as I can but have games on some of the other services when I'm forced to do so, for example ordering collectors editions which tie you to that companies stores looking at you EA and Ubisoft.

Money is great and all but customer backlash and negative press seems like something that doesn't always equal out to just a dollar amount. The trust in Mr. Gollop certainly has taken a big hit among backers and people who pre-ordered the game.

I hate that move and do not like to have multiple clients and stores installed, but I love the epic drama. The interwebbs cought again in a tantrum spiral. My body is ready for funny memes.

Sounds like they knew what they did and they expect Epic$$$>Refund$$$. I've set a reminder for April 1st, will decide about a refund when the dust has settled. JG is a good guy and did not suddenly get sucked in by the dark forces… Really curious what he's going to say next.

Originally Posted by Gabriel
Epic must have some crazy amounts of Fortnite money

They made 3 billion profit last year so expect a lot more crap like this for the epishitstore

Originally Posted by SpoonFULL
This is simple for me - I am asking for a refund as I am not getting a DRM free (or GoG) version as promised.

You actually are, just 1 year after release…

Originally Posted by Capt. Huggy Face
I'm not anti-Epic. You've put a lot of words into my mouth and made assumptions about what I think. Maybe you should reread my post, which you quoted.

Nah, I don't need to re-read anything, but you might. I said "if you're anti-Epic". Really that 2nd paragraph was directed at anyone reading the post, not you - sorry about any confusion there. But even if you want to read it all as directed as yourself, the word "if" obviously means I made no assumption about you. (I use "assumption" in the singular because even though you said "assumptions", plural, I see no other item in my post that could be read as any kind of assumption about what you think.)

Very good move, Julian!

Die STEAM, die!

For your information: You don't need to install that many game clients. GoG for example works perfectly without Galaxy. And people who still think that the STEAM client is better (or less invasive) than the Uplay client need serious help anyway. The Twitch client may be slower than STEAM, but is way less invasive than STEAM.

BTW: I have the Epic client installed and play a free Thimbleweed Park now. I still haven't bought a digital game copy outside of GoG.

Hm, well, I don't play games until they're pretty much complete and fully patched up anyway, so I don't care much having to wait a year to play.

I'm not installing another launcher either, so I will wait on the promised GOG keys. As long as they deliver on those, it's all good for me. I'm a FIG backer too, but I don't see this as a "betrayal" as long as they eventually deliver on their promise.

I backed the project because it was on gog; what has steam to do with this discussion ?

Originally Posted by Sir_Brennus
Very good move, Julian!

Die STEAM, die!

For your information: You don't need to install that many game clients. GoG for example works perfectly without Galaxy. And people who still think that the STEAM client is better (or less invasive) than the Uplay client need serious help anyway. The Twitch client may be slower than STEAM, but is way less invasive than STEAM.

BTW: I have the Epic client installed and play a free Thimbleweed Park now. I still haven't bought a digital game copy outside of GoG.

Originally Posted by Sir_Brennus
Die STEAM, die!

Why? Just to have another "Steam" born (in this case, the Epic client)?

Originally Posted by Ripper
Kindergarten? Probably a good place to look for someone who thinks this is how a bait and switch works.

Bait and Switch in any situation, barring a few exceptions, involve someone offering something, then when you get there to buy it they say it's not there and attempt to sell you something else, usually more expensive.

This is a variant of it where the company originally stated it would be on Steam (and GoG as well, I believe) then later tell the people who already shelled out the cash that it'll be delayed a year. So yes, the game WILL be eventually available on Steam, but who says they won't change their minds about that part as well? Maybe it'll sell horribly on Epic and they'll abandon it. If they changed things up after the Kickstarter, who's to say they won't do it again down the road?

Anyone can ask for a refund and should get it, but the fact is they sold something described in one way, then changed it later AFTER payments were made. I assume they'll hope people won't ask for the refund in droves. It's not illegal, but does smack of false advertising.

Originally Posted by tekulte
(…) Maybe it'll sell horribly on Epic and they'll abandon it. If they changed things up after the Kickstarter, who's to say they won't do it again down the road? (…)

They probably must have signed a contract with obligations for both parts. I don't foresse them abandoning Epc nor substantially changing things up again (like changing their minds once again and release the game on day 1 on Steam and GoG).

As for me, they can release the game on Epic, I really don't mind the game going there. I just wanted to play it on "day 1" (not "day 365") on the platform I first chose when I backed it.

Just a little video I thought I'd share.

Originally Posted by Gabriel
Epic must have some crazy amounts of Fortnite money to throw at these developers to not care about pissing off customers. I'm annoyed at having to install another launcher with a walled off store.

Crowdfunding is a story of declaring a project and shifting from it to fit other purposes.
As usual on this site, this current deviation is noticed because it goes against a select few's whims.
When it went their ways, they were quick to praise.

Money is great and all but customer backlash and negative press seems like something that doesn't always equal out to just a dollar amount. The trust in Mr. Gollop certainly has taken a big hit among backers and people who pre-ordered the game.

Crowdfunding is a temple for speculation, quite often, collected money is put on low risk investment vehicles to generate interest.

Backers were not that many, a part of them does not feel hurt and finally, expectations of sales is largely superior to the number of backers.

The lighter cut they take from their online store will largely fill the gap.

As to the fuss, it helps marketing their product which was one of their concerns and reasons not to use KS but fig.

The demand for UgoIgo products is extreme: players always moan everything is not UgoIgo and they will pass a product made by XCOM designers because it is not delivered through a usual store.

There are worse cases of miscalculations out there, like the war against Iraq.

Originally Posted by Gabriel
Epic must have some crazy amounts of Fortnite money to throw at these developers to not care about pissing off customers. I'm annoyed at having to install another launcher with a walled off store.

I currently have Steam, Uplay, Origin, Battle.net, Galaxy, and now Epic Games installed on my computer. I try to keep as much of my library on steam as I can but have games on some of the other services when I'm forced to do so, for example ordering collectors editions which tie you to that companies stores looking at you EA and Ubisoft.

Money is great and all but customer backlash and negative press seems like something that doesn't always equal out to just a dollar amount. The trust in Mr. Gollop certainly has taken a big hit among backers and people who pre-ordered the game.

The moment I had to install a 3rd one (Uplay after getting a key for the first Watchdog with a video card), I stopped caring about anything that doesn't release on Steam, Origin or GOG (3rd one because back then GOG Galaxy wasn't a thing, but I had plenty of GOG games).

If a game doesn't have a key for one of these 3 stores or doesn't require a store, it's an automatic no. It's as simple as that, doesn't matter how cool the game looks like, I had enough of installing crap apps on my PC.

Originally Posted by henriquejr
Why? Just to have another "Steam" born (in this case, the Epic client)?

Just to have a client taking a lighter cut on devs, therefore releasing more resources to make awesome vid products.

Which was the rationale sold to force Steam. Still works. Or not. Depends with double standard people.

I'll guess I'll get the Epic client then. I agree that it's a hassle to have several clients, but I don't believe Steams dominance is healthy to the market, especially considering the large cut they take. I dislike exclusives, but honestly see no other way a competitor to Steam could make me buy the game there otherwise, I wouldn't notice a price difference.

So I'll put my money where my mouth is and play this at launch.

I don't have problem with having multiple game launchers.. I have steam, origin, battle.net, uplay, etc…

But I don't have epic launcher for two reasons.
1. Exclusivity of 3rd party games
2. As a programmer myself I can't endorse such shoddy launcher and security issues with their platform… FFS they don't verify your email when you make account..

I had to go through their awful support team so I can delete account I didn't even make with my own e-mail.

Originally Posted by tekulte
Bait and Switch in any situation, barring a few exceptions, involve someone offering something, then when you get there to buy it they say it's not there and attempt to sell you something else, usually more expensive.

This is a variant of it where the company originally stated it would be on Steam (and GoG as well, I believe) then later tell the people who already shelled out the cash that it'll be delayed a year. So yes, the game WILL be eventually available on Steam, but who says they won't change their minds about that part as well? Maybe it'll sell horribly on Epic and they'll abandon it. If they changed things up after the Kickstarter, who's to say they won't do it again down the road?

Anyone can ask for a refund and should get it, but the fact is they sold something described in one way, then changed it later AFTER payments were made. I assume they'll hope people won't ask for the refund in droves. It's not illegal, but does smack of false advertising.

Yeah, and what I'm suggesting is that a bait and switch requires, by definition, the act of baiting. I don't think it's very plausible that they deliberately suckered people in with promises of Steam, planning to hoodwink them with the Epic Store, which didn't exist.

What we have here is a switch, without the baiting. And, because the company knows that the switch they've made wouldn't be fair to backers based on the original agreement, they're offering refunds to those bothered by it. Really, I think people are just crying "scam" because they're pissed off about it, but that doesn't hold up, IMO.

I have several "problems" with Epic store:

- no forum or user reviews to check k+m support, bugs presence or 30FPS lock with inability to disable motion blur

- no refund option

- not a single "exclusive" title I'd be interested in which includes Phoenix Point, in fact titles coming on it exclusively I consider avoidware (Division 2)


On the other hand IMO it's good it shook the market. Steam, postGreenlight, became a junkyard with more scamware than on phones. EarlyAccess sounded fine - till we saw cashing in on tech demos that never got past that phase. This caused proper indie releases to move onto nonPC platforms - no point of making a full release on PC when it's burried under heaps of scamware.
Valve is doing nothing to clean itself - if I wanted to be scammed I'd play games on phones not on PC. I hope Epic store will at least make them think about it.