BioWare RPG cliche chart

While checking out to play Jade Empire, I found the following chart of bioware games:


Most here probably have seen it before, but I'm posting it for those that haven't. Related to that, it makes me crave for some original settings too. You can almost take any two ideas (settings, games, movies) and the combination thereof is at least quite interesting in a vague crazy way.

Lets say: Chinese culture + the expanse, alternate reality + India

It probably sounds better in my head, but I still want to see some of them. :-) Just saying it is a pity that developers (have to) play it safe. What two settings do you want to see combined?

Btw: I just noted there is no bioware forum around here.

Having an opposing force of some kind counts as a cliché??

Yeah can't deny the BioWare RPG cliche's. Still they once made RPG's I loved to play by following that chart above. So I can't fault them for it worked and sold games.

Maybe I just love Male Power Fantasy Narratives.

Originally Posted by Zloth
Having an opposing force of some kind counts as a cliché??

Having an opposing opinion of some kind counts as bigotry today. I can't imagine the flak an actual opposing force would take

I've never seen nor heard of this chart before, but it goes a long way in explaining much about their development. These days I've no desire at all to play anything new from Electronic Arts, even the games I do replay tend to be well over ten years old that they were involved with.

Originally Posted by ilm
While checking out to play Jade Empire, I found the following chart of bioware games:


Most here probably have seen it before, but I'm posting it for those that haven't. Related to that, it makes me crave for some original settings too. You can almost take any two ideas (settings, games, movies) and the combination thereof is at least quite interesting in a vague crazy way.

Lets say: Chinese culture + the expanse, alternate reality + India

It probably sounds better in my head, but I still want to see some of them. :-) Just saying it is a pity that developers (have to) play it safe. What two settings do you want to see combined?

Btw: I just noted there is no bioware forum around here.

Yes, I've seen that chart before & it's as much malicious horseshit now as it was then. It was a meme created after Dragon Age Origins was released nearly 10 years ago.

The hub structure is actually an extremely good design & no-one has ever complained about hub-structures. In fact, it's a crying shame more games don't follow this design rather than the rather mind-numbing open world approach. You'll notice now I mention it that Divinity Original Sin used the hub + 4 design for Cyseal & you'll also notice that most people praise the Cyseal part of the game with great enthusiasm while the later part of the game, which uses no hub structure, is the part where people started quitting the game in their droves.

Were hubs ever 'cliche'? Maybe for avid Bioware fans who replayed all their games 14 times & burned themselves out on the concept, but in terms of reality they're actually the least used and most effective design for any cRPG system.

As Zloth points out, having an opposing force is just what pretty much all games have & it's utterly retarded to cite that as Bioware cliche. At the beginning of Mario the Princess is kinapped, your opposing force is established, game-on.

The only cliche that's kind-of genuine on the list is the notion that the player character is some kind of chosen one, the 'special person who will bring balance to the force' etc etc. But even here, that's not a bioware cliche, it's just the routine they stuck with. And the person who made the chart even fucked that up by instead using the phrasing "humble origins", which, in case you're not entirely thick, you'll notice applies to pretty much every RPG ever made and is intrinsically tied into the concept of 'levelling'.

Further, you'll notice that a lot of the games there don't even fulfill the very short and mostly horseshit list of 'cliches' the asshole who made that chart wanted to force onto the world.

You could make a chart like this for literally any game series ever made, but for some reason people don't. Oh, I wonder why.

And I know I'm unobseravant of every thread on this site, but are you honestly telling me that you've been a member here since 2009 and you 'suddenly notice' there's no Bioware forum? Did you also happen to notice that there's no forums at all for any developers of any kind, or are you entirely focused on just suddenly noticing things about Bioware? And further, in this regard, there is indeed a forum dedicated entirely to the Dragon Age series.

And no, I'm not even a Bioware fan, I'm just not someone's who's 'obsessed' with them, either in love or hate.

Your post claims that somehow this chart is 'proof' that Bioware 'played it safe' and it made you "crave for original settings', when that list already has many original settings just within the span of a few games, you even came across it from looking-up playing Jade frakin' empire, so, to be honest, no, I have no idea what the point of this post is and I'd be delighted if you could clarify exactly what the point of this post is as I have no idea beyond assuming it's just another bullshit cover for paving the way to praise some shit non-RPG by some hack-frauds that want to call their random game RPG because for some reason they think the RPG fanbase is potential untapped market in the post-steam greenlight world of desperate fraud-developers.

I don't claim anything. I just came across the chart and wanted to hear opinions on it. My craving for something original is always there. It just reminded me of it again, whether the chart is true or not.

I also don't memorise the structure of the forums yes. I just posted in the Piranha bytes section so I thought to post the chart in a BioWare section if it existed.

Please don't overanalyze things.

Originally Posted by lackblogger
Yes, I've seen that chart before & it's as much malicious horseshit now as it was then. It was a meme created after Dragon Age Origins was released nearly 10 years ago.

And I know I'm unobseravant of every thread on this site, but are you honestly telling me that you've been a member here since 2009 and you 'suddenly notice' there's no Bioware forum? Did you also happen to notice that there's no forums at all for any developers of any kind, or are you entirely focused on just suddenly noticing things about Bioware? And further, in this regard, there is indeed a forum dedicated entirely to the Dragon Age series.

Your post claims that somehow this chart is 'proof' that Bioware 'played it safe' and it made you "crave for original settings', when that list already has many original settings just within the span of a few games, you even came across it from looking-up playing Jade frakin' empire, so, to be honest, no, I have no idea what the point of this post is and I'd be delighted if you could clarify exactly what the point of this post is as I have no idea beyond assuming it's just another bullshit cover for paving the way to praise some shit non-RPG by some hack-frauds that want to call their random game RPG because for some reason they think the RPG fanbase is potential untapped market in the post-steam greenlight world of desperate fraud-developers.

Jesus christ mate. I don't know how you got half of what you said from Ilm's short original post. You have leapt from a few offhand to some kind of conspiracy theory against him.

I suggest you take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror.

Originally Posted by bjon045
Jesus christ mate. I don't know how you got half of what you said from the guys short original post.

That was exactly my point in the part you quoted. I had no idea what his point was, and looking at his response, neither did he.

Sorry if mentioning non-RPG hack frauds trying to target the RPG fanbase triggered you so much

Originally Posted by lackblogger
That was exactly my point in the part you quoted. I had no idea what his point was, and looking at his response, neither did he.

Sorry if mentioning non-RPG hack frauds trying to target the RPG fanbase triggered you so much

He said it was an interesting concept. That is all. I suggest you re-read his post when you are not intoxicated.

Originally Posted by bjon045
He said it was an interesting concept. That is all. I suggest you re-read his post when you are not intoxicated.

Your replies are "an interesting concept". I'm sorry you didn't like MY "interesting concepts".

Originally Posted by ilm
I don't claim anything. I just came across the chart and wanted to hear opinions on it. My craving for something original is always there. It just reminded me of it again, whether the chart is true or not.

I also don't memorise the structure of the forums yes. I just posted in the Piranha bytes section so I thought to post the chart in a BioWare section if it existed.

Please don't overanalyze things.

The Phiranha Bites forum isn't for discussing phirana bites as a company, it's just that they've have more than one recent series, so instead of having a different forum for each series they titled that bit Phirana Bites. The sub heading is "for discussing Phirana Bites games".

I can see where you're coming from here now and why this might have confused you, so thanks for clarifying what you meant here & I hope you understand why I made the point I did on this matter.

1 + 2 = 5 based on your logic. Where does it say hub designs are bad? Where did Ilm say Bioware played it safe? I'm not sure how you think the chart is "malicious" (i'm not sure you know what the word means) when it is just showing conceptual similarities between Bioware games. The fact that he asked whether there was a Bioware forum somehow became a conspiracy against Bioware. The list goes on…

Originally Posted by lackblogger
Your post claims that somehow this chart is 'proof' that Bioware 'played it safe' and it made you "crave for original settings', when that list already has many original settings just within the span of a few games, you even came across it from looking-up playing Jade frakin' empire, so, to be honest, no, I have no idea what the point of this post is and I'd be delighted if you could clarify exactly what the point of this post is as I have no idea beyond assuming it's just another bullshit cover for paving the way to praise some shit non-RPG by some hack-frauds that want to call their random game RPG because for some reason they think the RPG fanbase is potential untapped market in the post-steam greenlight world of desperate fraud-developers.

That has to be the longest rant in a single sentence I have ever read

The chart up there is as shallow as Transformers movies - it cares only about games' skeleton.
When facing another person do you analyze their skeleton and draw conclusions on that?

What matters is meat and fur, not bones.
A different bone here and there, gimme, gimme, but that doesn't mean not caring about everything else just to be different and then produce the worst RPG in gaming history - NWN.

Originally Posted by bjon045
Where did Ilm say Bioware played it safe?

Erm…

Originally Posted by ilm
Just saying it is a pity that developers (have to) play it safe.

Here?

Originally Posted by lackblogger
Here?

Developers. Where did he say Bioware?

All the guy did was say he want's to see some different settings and commented that you can combine different borrowed ideas to create interesting concepts. Cue, your raving.

Originally Posted by bjon045
Developers. Where did he say Bioware?

In the title of the thread, in the image used and in the bulk of the body text…

Really dude, I might have ranted but you're just being really weird now.

Originally Posted by joxer
and then produce the worst RPG in gaming history - NWN.

@purpleblob , I think @joxer is performing his mating call with you again…

Originally Posted by lackblogger
In the title of the thread, in the image used and in the bulk of the body text…

Really dude, I might have ranted but you're just being really weird now.

He used the chart to help explain his concept and the chart happened to be about Bioware. He was referring to developers in the general sense (including Bioware).

Anyway, I tire of this conversation. Good night, good sir.

p.s. I can't see how you can't think their overuse of dream sequences isn't cliched

Originally Posted by bjon045
He used the chart to help explain his concept and the chart happened to be about Bioware. He was referring to developers in the general sense (including Bioware).

Care to explain how a cliche is malicious?

So, yes, he referred to Bioware playing it safe, thanks for admitting that.

When is calling something a cliché malicious? Hmmm… how about: When you call something cliché that is either not a cliché or when you've only directed the claims of cliché to one specific entity and blame them entirely for that cliché.

I'm aware you've now interpreted his words to mean all devs/some devs/the devs that only ilm knows in his head that he forgot to mention, but if you want to have a conversation about 'not playing it safe' and you use as your opening example someone who 'plays it safe', then you might want to firstly establish what is actually meant by 'playing it safe' in the first place, rather than just sticking up an ancient attack-Bioware meme…

Edit: Oh, you edited your post, I was too quick to reply, sorry about that, yes, let's leave it here for now shall we.