RPGWatch Feature - Pathfinder: Kingmaker Review

Wished they did some of this patching before release Sounds like I should wait another year or two before biting.

Originally Posted by you
Wished they did some of this patching before release Sounds like I should wait another year or two before biting.

Well they learned a valuable lesson at least. The next game will go through a longer testing period according to the Russian panel last month. At least I hope so…

Link - https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42264

Still yeah the 1.1,1.2 & 1.3 patches change the game every time for better and worse. I used to tease Obsidian about their patching but seems it's not just them anymore.

Yup, I'm certainly not diving back in as of yet. I'm pretty sure they learned a lot from this release, hopefully their products in the future will benefit from this issues that this one suffered.

While I would have welcomed more polished game at a release, I'm certainly enjoying my replays more due to all these additional contents! Now, I need time to actually progress with my 4th playthrough… life's been tough these last few weeks

So waht makes this game so much better than divinity original sin 2 or pillars of eternity 2 ?

Originally Posted by purpleblob
While I would have welcomed more polished game at a release, I'm certainly enjoying my replays more due to all these additional contents! Now, I need time to actually progress with my 4th playthrough… life's been tough these last few weeks

I haven't played PoE2 so I can't comment on that.

Personally, I loved Kingmaker far more than D:OS2 because… well, I just found it more fun

For Kingmaker:
There are so many ways you can build your character(s), I loved the fact that all of the skills in game are utilised well, loved the story telling (some really nice twists throughout the game), loved the story of villains and companions (most of their stories are on melancholy side but with good amount of humour too) and their voice overs, and Kingdom system is charming in its own ways too

Compared to that, D:OS2 was:
I didn't find the class build varied enough, didn't really enjoy the story telling (felt a bit copied off from Dragon Age series), didn't really like my traveling companions (Sebille was a bit off-putting, Ifan was too serious, Beast was ok), combat was too much of "look at the height advantage and other environment interaction gimmicks!" for me etc. Oh, I really DISLIKED the game UI.

I'm sure it's got something to do with matter of taste too but D:OS2 just didn't grab me from the beginning. For some reason, I thought the combat was more fun in D:OS1 than 2 as well.

I haven't either played or researched much detail for DivOS2, PoE2 nor P:KM, but I already have a hunch that I'll probably like PK the most. My hunch could be wrong, and they are wrong more often than I'd like, but not very often. I just get this unquantifiable sense from the grand magical ether that PK is delivering something that is sorely missing from the market and has been for a very long time much more so than either DIVOS2 or PoE2

Originally Posted by you
So waht makes this game so much better than divinity original sin 2 or pillars of eternity 2 ?

I'm not sure about it being better than POE2 (I haven't finished PK, waiting for less patching and all DLCs), but PK has more build variety than either of them and DOS2 is light in term of branching dialogues compared to PK and POE2.

DOS2 has serious combat issues in the later half with the overusage of "surface" spells by enemies (haven't tried the reworked version) which can make the combat tedious. It's main attraction is how interactive it is and how creative you can be with those interactions.

PK and POE2 are more in the BG2 mold, but POE2 has more "modern" DNA. POE2 boat exploration is quite ymmv, but I guess that stand for PK kingdom management too. POE2 has some pacing issues here and there too but I can't say about PK having only reached chapter 2.

PK wins when it comes to replayability over both games easily too.

Originally Posted by lackblogger
I haven't either played or researched much detail for DivOS2, PoE2 nor P:KM, but I already have a hunch that I'll probably like PK the most. My hunch could be wrong, and they are wrong more often than I'd like, but not very often. I just get this unquantifiable sense from the grand magical ether that PK is delivering something that is sorely missing from the market and has been for a very long time much more so than either DIVOS2 or PoE2

Eek. Looks like I might have been a bit wrong here, having done some research now. It seems Kingmaker is hobbled by a rather tedious and irrational camping/survival mechanic system. My brain was imploding just reading about it all.

Maybe it's not as annoying as it sounds…? Oh my. I wonder how long this fad will last before everything gets back to normal. Knowing fads, it could be years… years! Crafting is taking it's sweet time vanishing, now I'm waiting for survival to go on top of that! Ah well, there's some promising titles out this year that look more like my thing, I'll see how they present themselves before panicking too much.

There are no survival mechanics in Pathfinder. It is just an expanded Baldur's Gate resting system. The trick is that time you waste resting matters because each additional day you spend needlessly resting is one day less you got for improving your kingdom.

Time? Since when has time ever mattered?

Expanding my kingdom? I play 4x for that itch.

I know you mean well, but you have no idea how you're not helping me like the sound of it even more

Its a more elaborate / grander scale version of NWN2 or POE base building isn't it? I enjoyed it in both of those games but primarily because it was a fun addition and not a "big deal" distracting from the core exploration. Is it a "big deal" in Pathfinder?

Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002
Its a more elaborate / grander scale version of NWN2 or POE base building isn't it? I enjoyed it in both of those games but primarily because it was a fun addition and not a "big deal" distracting from the core exploration. Is it a "big deal" in Pathfinder?

Yes, it is expanded version of nwn2 keep. It is not a 4x or rts.

Originally Posted by lackblogger
Time? Since when has time ever mattered?

Expanding my kingdom? I play 4x for that itch.

I know you mean well, but you have no idea how you're not helping me like the sound of it even more

It is not a 4x game or even 4x lite.
You don't manage population, resources, diplomacy or wars.
Things happen often without you choosing it, while in 4x things happen because of your choices.

It is more like you play at being a ruler but all big problems are solved by your group and not your kingdom.

I haven't played it yet, but from what I gather, I think the kingdom management is a "big deal" in the game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression is that it's a way bigger aspect of the game than the base building in those other games.

The point of having a kingdom is so people get to call you Your Grace and you get different kind of quests.
Both nwn2 and poe failed somewhat in this aspect. You were still treated like an adventurer, especially in PoE1. Even the lord of that first city completely ignored you were an owner of a big fortress close to him.

Sure, but I mean in answer to Todd's question, about whether the base-management side is a "big deal distracting from the core exploration", I think the answer is probably yes.

I'm still waiting until they finally finish patching/balancing it before I jump in.

As far as the kingdom management goes, I don't think the management part will bother me much. It's the time limits on quests that I'm more concerned about. I don't mind the occasional timed quest, but I hear this game has a lot of them.

As Archangel said, camping in Kingmaker is just extended version of camping in BG (quite similar to camping in Expeditions: Viking). You can assign your party member to hunt, hide camp, cook, guard camp or to gain special perks. You can't rest without ration so you either use up ration in your inventory or send your party to hunt. Hiding camp lowers chance of getting attacked. Cooking good meal gives party a buff, you can rest without cooking. Special perks differ for each companions, it can be very useful in certain situations.

Kingdom management is the integral part of the game but there are options to make it less burdensome. Invicible kingdom makes it that you don't get game over when the kingdom reach "crumbling" state, you just need to deal with kingdom quests that are tied to main plot only. You get access to best loots in game by improving your kingdom stats and inviting artisans to your lands but its not crucial to simply finish the game. What I'm saying is, kingdom management is complicated but only if you want to really explore it.

As I mentioned several times, timers in Kingmaker are rather generous, espeicially for main quests and companion quests. The "shorter" timed quests are usually for c&c perks (e.g. to unlock the "best" ending).

You guys already know how I feel about the game but let me tell you once more - its incredily feature rich and fun game. Go try it out!

Purpleblob, what difficulty mode do you play on? Does the difficulty level affect the timers?