Pillars of Eternity II - Lessons to learn

They should import the content of PoE into the PoE 2 engine - and sell them both together as a remastered "gold" version.

It should be relatively easy to do, and they'd be able to get a decent take on the status of the franchise with fans.

They would need to scale difficulty a bit - or whatever, but I'm pretty sure they'd make a decent profit doing that.

Gotta love one of his replies.

"I'm sure some of the people reading this think they know precisely why Deadfire sold worse than Pillars 1. I don't have that confidence, which is one of several reasons why I am leery about trying to direct a sequel. I couldn't give our (Obsidian's) audience the game that they wanted and without understanding where I went wrong, I would be guessing at what the problems are and how to remedy them."

He's 100% correct as any armchair general thinks they know the reason why.

Doesn't PoE II just use a slightly newer version of Unity? I wasn't aware it was significantly different from PoE.

I'm a little surprised at the overall negativity towards PoE. I found it inferior to the IE games, but I thought it was better than more modern RTwP games like Dragon Age.

There's quite a lot of reasons I haven't tried PoE1 yet and wasn't overly excited by sounds from the sequel.

For PoE1 I'm put off by the reports of walls of text. While there's no offence to having walls of text, the games that appealed to me and the ones they were emulating weren't overladen with text and what text there was wasn't overly flowery.

Combined with reports of unexciting loot, bland combat encounters and a weird general mechanics system that bares very little resemblance to the games it supposedly mimics I find very little to get excited about.

In terms of companions, IWD didn't have any, it wont come close to matching PS:T's and I'm not really convinced it does them anything like Baldur's Gate did either. I guess I've always been waiting for someone the explain what it is about them, other than being isometric and RTwP, that makes them in any way a spiritual sequel to the IE games.

It also has guns for some bizzare reason.

PoE2 is planted in my imagination as pirates and base building. Not the first things that come to my mind when looking for an RPG to play.

And they're both 'good enough' to never get decent price drops in the sales, so I've never had the opportunity to try for a fiver. PoE is what, five years old now? And still they want twenty bucks for the complete version? And it was all already supposedly paid up front by the kickstarter, so it's just using it's price as an 'it costs a lot so it must be a good quality game' marketing strategy, which I find quite an ugly sales technique, personally, as it makes me distrust them generally.

PoE1 was my best RPG exeperience in the last 10 years. I really loved it, even if the memory problems of UNITY made me bang my head against the wall.

PoE2 was still great, but somehow I lost interest after half of the games. I restarted when TB mode was final and.. whow, what a game. I try to play it to completion, because I love it so, so much. Normally I really like to rush the main quest and to finish ASAP. This is saying a lot, I think.

Originally Posted by Sir_Brennus
Normally I really like to rush the main quest and to finish ASAP.

I've been seeing this from a few posters recently. Never once have I ever approached an RPG from this perspective & I honestly can't fathom the mindset. RPG is 90% about avoiding the main quest at all costs, that's where, like, the actual game is. What RPGs have you been rushing for all these years?

Originally Posted by JDR13
Doesn't PoE II just use a slightly newer version of Unity? I wasn't aware it was significantly different from PoE.

PoE 2 has a very different character and combat system, including multiclassing and custom tactics. It puts heavy emphasis on active combat abilities, for instance.

As a result, the individual classes feel more distinct - and they have a lot more toys to play around with, with the addition of multiclassing to boot.

It's also much smoother and a lot more fun, in my opinion.

The custom tactics work perfectly - meaning you can automate everything your party does, and expect them to follow your orders to the letter.

It most closely resembles Dragon Age Origins in that way.

PoE combat was very basic in terms of automation and a nightmare to control in comparison, especially in tight areas where the zone of control rules meant your characters would constantly stand in each others way.

Beyond that, PoE 2 has a bunch of technical improvements, the most prominent of which is probably the advanced lighting engine - making for much more vibrant shadows and stuff like that.

It's just a much better game overall - and it also has full speech, which PoE didn't have.

Originally Posted by lackblogger
For PoE1 I'm put off by the reports of walls of text. While there's no offence to having walls of text, the games that appealed to me and the ones they were emulating weren't overladen with text and what text there was wasn't overly flowery.

I've never seen that complaint about PoE, and it didn't seem particularly verbose to me.

It might seem wordy if you're comparing it to something like IWD, but it's not another PS:T.

Originally Posted by JDR13
I've never seen that complaint about PoE, and it didn't seem particularly verbose to me.

It might seem wordy if you're comparing it to something like IWD, but it's not another PS:T.

Yeah, I second that. There are some Dialogues which are too long and lead to nothing. I founds some of the Companion Dialogues to be much too long.
But the game is behind PS:T, Numenera and Shadowrun Hong Kong.

behind as in number of walls of text or behind as in quality of the walls of text, or both

That's the point isn't it, too wordy for the quality of the words. Vastly more wordy than IWD, more wordy than BG2 but with weaker companions and nowhere near the quality of PST for a similar word-sperg aspiration.

Originally Posted by BriefDArt
The custom tactics work perfectly - meaning you can automate everything your party does, and expect them to follow your orders to the letter. It most closely resembles Dragon Age Origins in that way.

It was supposed to resemble the IE games. Also, party automation is not a selling point for me.

Originally Posted by BriefDArt
Beyond that, PoE 2 has a bunch of technical improvements, the most prominent of which is probably the advanced lighting engine - making for much more vibrant shadows and stuff like that.

It's just a much better game overall - and it also has full speech, which PoE didn't have.

Vibrant shadows and voice acting are not high on my list of things to look out for

Originally Posted by JDR13
I've never seen that complaint about PoE, and it didn't seem particularly verbose to me.

It might seem wordy if you're comparing it to something like IWD, but it's not another PS:T.

Well, even IGN notes the Walls of Text, even though they imply it's a positive negative:

Pillars of Eternity is something of a welcome novelty, in that such elaborate characterizations aren't just reserved for main characters; they extend to everyone, even random folks found on cobblestones of Defiance Bay or dozing drunkenly in the corners of weathered taverns. Reach out to their soul, and you're slapped with a personal story that spills out over fascinating walls of text but has nothing to do with the main story, and the quality of writing involved is such that these moments never entirely lose their appeal.

Kordanor is aware of it. Plenty of Steam reviews mention it. And in case you're going to attack the use of IGN, as a direct opposite the following quote is found on the RPGcodex reddit regarding one of their their review:

"Pillars of Eternity also champions the new wave of RPG dialogue writing that uses desaturated, descriptive text in between a character's sentences to describe the scene, the mood or the appearance of the character." This was the single most offputting thing for me about Pillars.

So there's, like, five people in a five minute search. I'll make a note that you didn't find it too text heavy though, it's always good to have fresh opinions. I guess you can now no longer say you've never heard this point before

Originally Posted by lackblogger
That's the point isn't it, too wordy for the quality of the words. Vastly more wordy than IWD, more wordy than BG2 but with weaker companions and nowhere near the quality of PST for a similar word-sperg aspiration.

You're great at the speculation thing, but I guess that's all you can do when you haven't played the game in question.

I also didn't find it too wordy ( assuming you don't read the gold NPC's that are backer made) but I've yet to finish it. Starting another attempt now.

My experience with the first game is why I haven't jumped on the second yet. I did buy it though at a big discount.

I'm not a fan of their vision of some of the classes, such as the monks wound mechanic , the balancing or some of the scripted battles in tight area's such as the maerwald fight that doesn't allow for spacing or much in the way of tactics.

It's not a bad game though, I like the 3 different speeds to play at and the scripted events with the skill checks are a nice touch. Wish it had more of them.

As others have pointed out, it's largely down to the first game, not the second. Sadly, that means the franchise is probably not possible to salvage at this point.

Then again, I'm not sure Microsoft is interested in the Pillars of Eternity franchise. In fact, I don't think they bought Obsidian for their existing IPs at all, as they're all too small for Microsoft to care all that much. I expect to see RPGs with an appeal similar to KotOR or Fallout, not Pillars of Eternity or Tyranny. Maybe we'll see another such game from Obsidian if they already have one in the works, but after that it's doubtful.

Originally Posted by BriefDArt
I'm not talking about random encounters

I'm talking about how most of the game I've played has boring locations and what amounts to endless trash mob fights.

That said, I've only played around half of it. I've exhausted my interest, sadly.

Then again, I'm a big fan of intricate dungeons and puzzles - and there just wasn't enough of that kind of thing.

You spend most of your time roaming the map, hoping for something cool - and most of it is just yet another small overland map with trash mobs, crap loot or trivial conversations. Then you go back to yet another Kingdom event.

Maybe it gets better towards the latter half?

I did find the overarching plot interesting, though.

But it really felt like 80-90% filler to me.

To me, PoE 2 felt a LOT more diverse in terms of distinct locations - and I much preferred the full-speech presentation.

First half of Kingmaker is definitely the better part. To me at least.

But its funny how two different people can perceive exactly same thing not just in different way, but in exact opposite way.

I didnt finish PoE2 yet, as I get distracted every now and then, but so far I dont remember single combat as being memorable in any really significant way. Same goes for puzzles, investigations or conversations. I consider PoE2 as being good game, especially since turn-based mode. But its nowhere close to Kingmaker to me. Which I played for over 300 hours and almost completely forgot about any other games during that time.

Originally Posted by JDR13
You're great at the speculation thing, but I guess that's all you can do when you haven't played the game in question.

So you're saying all the people I referenced are lying?

Originally Posted by Maylander
Then again, I'm not sure Microsoft is interested in the Pillars of Eternity franchise.

Exactly what I think about this acquisition. I will be very, very surprised if they ever release party-based, isometric cRPG under Microsoft. That is niche product. Microsoft is interested in anything, but niche products.

Originally Posted by Andrew23
First half of Kingmaker is definitely the better part. To me at least.

But its funny how two different people can perceive exactly same thing not just in different way, but in exact opposite way.

I didnt finish PoE2 yet, as I get distracted every now and then, but so far I dont remember single combat as being memorable in any really significant way. Same goes for puzzles, investigations or conversations. I consider PoE2 as being good game, especially since turn-based mode. But its nowhere close to Kingmaker to me. Which I played for over 300 hours and almost completely forgot about any other games during that time.

Tell me about it

I'm still wondering why thousands of people called Avatar the best movie of all time. Because that wasn't the movie I saw.

As for Kingmaker, to each his own.

I think it's a good game - with a fantastic rule system.

In terms of interesting content, however, I found it rather trivial and grindy. Again, full of pointless filler combat and boring locations - with the occasional exception.

Though, like I said - I found the main story quite interesting when it finally got going. Also, like I said, it does have exceptions - and I liked some of the locations well enough. Maybe 1 in 5 were actually interesting, which - to me - isn't a great ratio.

I also didn't care for the Kingdom system - and I found the Artifact system even worse, which is a problem as I'm a big loot guy. I hated that I had to find a zillion identical pieces of loot in seemingly random places - for it to unlock.

Of course, it didn't help that the entire first year post launch was full of serious bugs and issues.

I've restarted the game 3 times and probably have 150 hours in it, or something like that.

If I'd waited to play - it might have been better.

Then again, it's not really "my genre" - as I grew tired of the formula back in the IWD days.

PoE 2 has its own share of problems and I'd consider both games about equal - only in different ways.

But it doesn't have to be a competition, and there's room for all kinds of responses to all kinds of games.

Originally Posted by lackblogger
So you're saying all the people I referenced are lying?

I'm talking about your claims that the companions aren't as good as those in BG2, or that the writing isn't as good as in PS:T. Those are subjective things in which you have no basis for comparison since you haven't actually played the game.