Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Dev Diary #2 Camera Action

I like this. I think at this point they're doing everything I ever wanted the first game to be. Really looking forward to its full release. Last hurdle: deliver a bug free game. If they can do that, this may be a truly epic game to invest hundreds of hours into, and potential goty material, despite the fact that it will be probably competing with titles like BG3 or Solasta.

At the risk of "being negative" (can't have that!) First, I will try to alleviate the horror by saying that, I for one, do appreciate a rotating camera. So, Bravo on that.

That said, the turnbased system they put in was very inferior - in my opinion - to the turn based mod that became popular. And then when I tried to go back to the turn based mod, it was impossible, because the mod no longer worked with the updated edition of the game.

So as far as I'm concerned, would like to see the turn based combat altered to how the mod did it, which is much more important than most other features in the game, from my perspective.

Originally Posted by Arkadia7
That said, the turnbased system they put in was very inferior - in my opinion - to the turn based mod that became popular. And then when I tried to go back to the turn based mod, it was impossible, because the mod no longer worked with the updated edition of the game.

So as far as I'm concerned, would like to see the turn based combat altered to how the mod did it, which is much more important than most other features in the game, from my perspective.

What did you prefer?

Didn't they use the source code of the mod? I've never used this mod, only the TB mode when the Enhanced Plus Edition was released. It was quite the feat, it must have been pretty complex to plug something like that into Owlcat's code without the original source and any documentation.

I’m glad they’re adding camera rotation and would have modded it in if they didn’t. I always miss it in games that don’t support it.

I still need to play the first one though.

Speaking of turn-based mode, since it's in the game by default this time, did they tone down the amount of combat to compensate for the additional time spent in battles?

Originally Posted by JDR13
Speaking of turn-based mode, since it's in the game by default this time, did they tone down the amount of combat to compensate for the additional time spent in battles?

I don't know the answer to this but I sure hope not. I also see no reason for it, as I've read you can freely switch between turn-based and RTwP, so anyone being concerned about "trash fights" getting tedious in TB can just go real-time and brainlessly click on enemies til they die.

Originally Posted by JDR13
Speaking of turn-based mode, since it's in the game by default this time, did they tone down the amount of combat to compensate for the additional time spent in battles?

Not that I could see so far in the beta.

I'm not sure they would like to do that because you can indeed switch between the two modes any time, even during combat. And you see the enemies before starting the combat, so a change in the number of enemies would have to be decided before. It would have to be an option that says "if I see you in TB when you enter an area, I'll spawn fewer enemies", and if the player uses that to cheat the system, so be it.

I made two similar (short) runs in TB and in RTwP, the difference was huge. From that test, and the time I've spent in Kingmaker vs average, I'd say it's at least twice as long in TB.

Just keep TB for very hard encounters.

Originally Posted by Redglyph
I'm not sure they would like to do that because you can indeed switch between the two modes any time, even during combat. And you see the enemies before starting the combat, so a change in the number of enemies would have to be decided before. It would have to be an option that says "if I see you in TB when you enter an area, I'll spawn fewer enemies", and if the player uses that to cheat the system, so be it.

Yeah, I wasn't talking about anything like that. I was just curious if the overall amount of combat was about the same. I thought maybe they toned it down a bit.

*Edit* To clarify, I'm talking about compared to Kingmaker. I wasn't asking if there was a difference between the encounters in TB vs RTwP.

@purpleblob and others who follow the development more closely: How is it planned (or already implemented) to deal with the strategic battles (of your army)? Is only a result shown or will there be something like a mini game? Or do we load up a Total War game and control our armies in real time.
Also is there some way for the party to influence the battles?

Originally Posted by JDR13
Yeah, I wasn't talking about anything like that. I was just curious if the overall amount of combat was about the same. I thought maybe they toned it down a bit.

*Edit* To clarify, I'm talking about compared to Kingmaker. I wasn't asking if there was a difference between the encounters in TB vs RTwP.

I have the impression it's roughly the same. @purpleblob got much further to she may have a better feeling of this.

EDIT: I haven't had long and repetitive battles like the HatEoT though, it was generally varied and engaging, even in the few epic, giant battles.

I thought the battles were well done and never felt I was slogging through them.

I got fairly far then heard you would lose your saves when they updated in April so I stopped playing until after they do that.

Originally Posted by Morrandir
@purpleblob and others who follow the development more closely: How is it planned (or already implemented) to deal with the strategic battles (of your army)? Is only a result shown or will there be something like a mini game? Or do we load up a Total War game and control our armies in real time.
Also is there some way for the party to influence the battles?

Army combat is already in beta. You need to control your army legion and units to actually fight demon armies in TB mode - more detail will be shared in my preview (I've submitted it to Myrthos so hopefully it will be published soon).

Originally Posted by JDR13
Speaking of turn-based mode, since it's in the game by default this time, did they tone down the amount of combat to compensate for the additional time spent in battles?

There are similar amount of combat as in Kingmaker which makes sense since you are fighting against the demon horde in a war that's been going on for almost 100 years - as Redglyph already mentioned, the best way to approach things is play in RTwP mode until you encounter tough fights.

Encounters in WotR are a lot more memorable than Kingmaker ones though - there were really quite a number of interesting fights already.

Originally Posted by purpleblob
A little disappointed with rather negative reception of the camera. Imo the rotating camera adds to exploration and cinametics (which subsequently add to storytelling).

All these little things improves the game. I certainly don't want to play games with barebone features all the time.

Besides, this isn't the only thing Owlcats added - there are far more improvements and new features in WotR.

Mine wasn't specifically criticism of this game or of your comments. I'm just not a fan of camera fiddling in games because it can become a big time sink. What is natural in the real world -- turning your head and looking around -- is often a nuisance in games because of the awkwardness with which it is implemented. Once the camera can be rotated, then as a player I find I have to frequently rotate the camera because the designers build the game with that assumption.

My one wish for 3d camera rpgs is for them to have an auto-highlight item key/button that auto-pans the camera to show items you haven't inspected. At least that way it will be less busy work for me. Otherwise it is a fine thing to see more of the world you are exploring.

Originally Posted by Silver
My one wish for 3d camera rpgs is for them to have an auto-highlight item key/button that auto-pans the camera to show items you haven't inspected. At least that way it will be less busy work for me. Otherwise it is a fine thing to see more of the world you are exploring.

Seriously not many RPGs have an highlight item key. The last RPGs I played that had one was NeverWinter Nights 1&2. You'd think new games would have that option but no.

Also I don't foresee a bug free release. I put my money on 30+ hot-fix patches once again. It's also the new trend to patch games like crazy after they release nowadays.

Some games more then others it seems.

Originally Posted by Nereida
I like this. I think at this point they're doing everything I ever wanted the first game to be. Really looking forward to its full release. Last hurdle: deliver a bug free game. If they can do that, this may be a truly epic game to invest hundreds of hours into, and potential goty material, despite the fact that it will be probably competing with titles like BG3 or Solasta.

Solasta maybe as it's releasing this year but not BG3, as it's nowhere near release. Still that's just based on whether Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous will release this year.

The last roadmap said sometime this summer or X-Mas.

Divinity: OS, Pillars of Eternity 1&2, and Pathfinder: Kingmaker all allow you to highlight items, and that's just off the top of my head.

Originally Posted by Redglyph
To be honest, I feel the same way as purpleblob.

If people obviously enjoy features like this, it's not really fun to see a load of posts saying it's worthless and a waste of time. What's even the point of posting that?

Anyway, this makes me hesitate more and more before posting or sending any bit of news, it looks like so much is unwelcome recently.

Well that's not how forums work. Everyone has different tastes and opinions. I've seen online sites become cesspools of game fanatics, and I don't recommend them.

Also I'm referring to both spectrum's who either love or hate games/publishers/developers. The many subreddits are a prime example of this happening.

Originally Posted by JDR13
Divinity: OS, Pillars of Eternity 1&2, and Pathfinder: Kingmaker all allow you to highlight items, and that's just off the top of my head.

Good to know that's still not many RPGs and it's not auto highlight as sliver wants.

Originally Posted by Couchpotato
Good to know that's still not many RPGs and it's not auto highlight as sliver wants.

Yeah, I'm just referring to games that have a highlight key.

Imo, it's present in most of the games that actually need one.