KEEP MAKING INDIE GAMES - Don't Listen to Jeff Vogel

KEEP MAKING INDIE GAMES - Inspiration for Artists & Indie Devs- Don't Listen to Jeff Vogel | RANT:30


And the article the video is about:
https://bottomfeeder.substack.com/p/…ny-video-games

What an insane take from Jeff Vogel.

Personally, before going after indie devs who, like the dude from Tek Syndicate says, are likely working on indie games as side-gigs, I'd go after all the people working in bullshit industries like marketing/advertising, banking (mostly those in "investments" i.e. "gambling)), and plenty of other job markets full of bullshit jobs.

Heck, some of the most talented software engineer and problem solvers are working for ad companies (google/facebook). Some of the best mathematicians are working for investment groups to model predictions to make as much money as possible on the stock market. WHAT. A. WASTE!

Lol. Does he have a "new" game coming out, or a new Kickstarter for his business that doesn't need Kickstarting? He always seems to do this when he needs a bit of attention - some daft, provocative article to get people talking about him.

I certainly appreciate all these hard workers making these smaller, independent games and I hope they continue to do so.

I thought you need Roman Legionnaires to build roads not indie developers?

Originally Posted by Ripper
Lol. Does he have a "new" game coming out, or a new Kickstarter for his business that doesn't need Kickstarting? He always seems to do this when he needs a bit of attention - some daft, provocative article to get people talking about him.

I like his games (to an extent), but anytime he opens his mouth it's horrible. This latest blog is a little different, but his usual thing is elaborate humble-brags. "I've been doing this so long, it's so unrewarding and hard, and I'm not that good at it, but what's amazing is I still somehow make a great living off of it. Can't recommend it to anyone else though, it's unlikely you could pull it off, it's too hard"

And Kickstarter is basically his version of "Epic exclusive". Bypass the 30% Steam tax for all your early sales.

Jeff Vogel hasn't had a "new" game in more than a decade.

Eh?? All he's saying is that the market is saturated, so the vast majority of indie video games fail. If you think you're going to make it as an indie dev, you better have a solid backup plan. It's the same talk you give to high school kids looking to go into sports as their career, or dream of being a rock & roll star.

So what about the people who made Stardew Valley, Minecraft or Undertale, all made by a single person, in total these indie games are played by almost a billion people and one of the makers is a billionaire

It should be, if you are to make indie games make something great and unique

Originally Posted by Zloth
Eh?? All he's saying is that the market is saturated, so the vast majority of indie video games fail. If you think you're going to make it as an indie dev, you better have a solid backup plan. It's the same talk you give to high school kids looking to go into sports as their career, or dream of being a rock & roll star.

As an interesting tangent, the reverse was also true in the days prior to mass education. Parents and teachers would often encourage studious kids to learn a musical instrument or craft, such as carpentry, just in case their professional career didn't take off. In the days before juke boxes, being a piano player was a commonly required skill that could get you easy casual money if push came to shove. Ye olde version of flipping burgers for a year.

That's why when you were at school the posher kids would often be the ones lugging musical instruments around all the time. Bureaucracy was scarce & the demand for live music was high. Nowadays you can't move for bureaucracy and barely anywhere has live music.

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness
So what about the people who made Stardew Valley, Minecraft or Undertale, all made by a single person, in total these indie games are played by almost a billion people and one of the makers is a billionaire

It should be, if you are to make indie games make something great and unique

https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=33

Originally Posted by lackblogger
https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=33

I should probably have added, be aware that it takes immense amount of time and effort

Originally Posted by JDR13
Jeff Vogel hasn't had a "new" game in more than a decade.

So you've been saying in every Vogel thread for more than a decade

Undertale is a damn, fine game. I would have never explored it for myself, yet two mates talked me into it a few years ago and their recommendations from that day forward have had more meaning.

No body wants indie games? Wtf?

Majority of games I've been enjoying are from indie devs.

Stardew Valley, Winkeltje, Wildermyth, RimWorld, Valheim, Nuclear Throne etc.

I've got over 900 hours from Stardew Valley alone!

I agree with @Stingray - it sounds like he writes these to "subtly" say how good he is at "creating" indie games despite the harsh environment - altho most of his offerings are remasters from my understanding rather than actual new games.

Love his story telling and game balance is always spot on in my opinion. Game engine and art assets take an adjustment to get into the games. But once playing I rarely stop.

Originally Posted by lackblogger
So you've been saying in every Vogel thread for more than a decade

Not necessarily. I often just comment on how even his newer games look like they were made in 1995.

Yeah, there's lots of things I could take issue with in his post, but I think there's a flaw in his central case - that there's essentially too much of all media. I think that probably appears true, but I don't think it's because all da kidz are suddenly trying to become creatives instead of getting 'proper' jobs. I think it appears more so now (and this applies to a lot of issues in the world) because we're seeing it more often - anyone that wants to put their creative work on some sort of platform can now do so. So, the vast amount of fairly mediocre stuff that was never going to get anywhere is now like an ocean before us, but I think it was always there.

Personally, I do have some faith in the idea that really good work will usually find its audience, same as it ever was.

I mean I get what he's saying here, yet stifling creativity is never a good thing, in my book. Why even be concerned, if there's not an audience for the game, I think the creator will take the hint.

And I say this as a huge fan of Vogel and his company. They've not disappointed me yet.

Once in a while he come up with a new concept. Like Queen's Wish where the basic concept is refreshing. But once you get in the actual game, if feels like playing Avernum / Exile. It didn't age well, imo.

By the way , "Vogel" means in German language "bird".