What is "mindless RPG combat"?

A quote from RPGDot:

6/10 for can't-make-up-its-mind Birth of Shadows in a detailed review from GameBanshee: So while Birth of Shadows did not fit my personal tastes and I can't recommend it blindly due to its genre-blending, the game's tactical elements are an improvement over normal mindless RPG combat and could very really please you if you're a fan of real-time strategy titles.

I've seen this in many other reviews of RPG's, sometimes of some of my favorites, and I wonder what is meant by "mindless RPG combat". I'm partial to RPG combat in games like Baldur's Gate and Fallout, and I put up with real-time combat systems because it is what is used in some pretty good games. I've also often seen, mostly from publications and web sites more attuned to console type gaming I must admit, that combat in RPG's is described as "boring". I always have the sneaking suspicion that they are maligning the combat systems of my favorite games because they are not like FPS fights.

Is mindless RPG combat like that in Diablo? I played through both Diablo and Diablo II, but I did not find the combat particularly stimulating. I find I avoid most Diablo clones now and I don't enjoy mouse clicking combat too much. Are the "boring" RPG's the ones that I like the most which give you time to plan out what you want to do with each character in your party? I loathed the combat in Jade Empire (I got a used XBox to play this thing) because I came up with a style that I could slog my way through the game and then at the endgame, I could not defeat the McGuffin because my fighting style would not work against him. I've not seen the combat system in Jade Empire being criticized as being boring or mindless, though I hated it.

I suppose it's all subjective, but I sure see the terms boring and mindless applied to RPG combat a lot in games reviews.

I disliked diablo and diabloclones combat (what I consider as mindless) but I liked divine divinty combat even though its similar. Perhaps the other elements in divinity (characthers, stories, plots, quests, etc) made the combat enjoyable. Unlike with diablo I was able to immerse myself with divinity. Diablo felt like a game while divinity felt real.

I guess I dont have enough imagination for games like diablo. I cant just imagine that there are stories, plots and characters. Diablo is an empty book while divinity is hundreds of pages thick.

I think the combat is the biggest turn-off in Diablo and its clones, but that's because the combat is just a level-up tool 90 % of the time. Combat is a fast-track to stat-crunching and loot, not a strategic contest except for boss battles perhaps and special situations like hardcore mode or playing at top difficulty level. Long story short--playing the game for combat is the wrong focus and won't be satisfying on its own.

In non-action rpgs, I don't find combat mindless or boring, even in dungeon crawlers as long as the game is party-based. In IWD for instance, you are involved in a lot of combat, but because you are developing a six-member party with varying skillsets, there's always a strategic element (of which skill to promote) involved. Same with Wiz8--combat is always interesting and challenging because you have so many options--weapons to choose from--in each battle.

In single character rpgs, I think zakhal has a point. Without story, characters and choices, games like The Witcher or Gothic would devolve into repetitive combat situations--I don't know if Gothic 1 combat could ever be called mindless, though as it's too interactive. Maybe its the keyboard element there.

I think the kind of combat that other genres promote is seen as more exciting because it's more immediate, and more related to a first person perspective. In a shooter, there's more of an adrenalin factor, as things are popping up at you and demanding that twitch kill reflex.

Is it that interest increases dramatically when the focus is on "you" and not a collection of pixels in a pointy hat, maybe? Hard for me to say personally since I haven't played many of those games. Jaz or JDR , Sammy, etc could probably comment better on that aspect.

Originally Posted by magerette
but that's because the combat is just a level-up tool 90 % of the time.

Which has been "satirelized", so to say, by Progress Quest.

D2 ( I never write the full name, because i don't like it at all ) contains "mindless combat" in the sense that in principle the whole game consists of it.

If you would take the combat out of this game, there would be nearly nothing.

The "mindlessness" about it is that there is no strategy in the sense of tactical games in it: You just walk through hordes of enemies which ONLY purpose in their whole "life" seems to consist of becoming experience points of the "hero".

It is as if you would walk over a steet that's covered with worms. Some have teeh, poison or hard shells which you must evade, then, but apart from that there are no tactics at all, so in result you need not be very much intelligent for it, I assume.

As the others said, what they call mindless combat is certainly something akin to the one found in Diablo and its clones.

I remember back then, in 96, the guy who sold me my first «modern» computer gave me a copy of Diablo 1 with it. Well, after 6-8 months of playing that game SP and on battle.net(and two mouse broken) I realized the futility, the boredom and the stupidity of that game and its mindless combat. The only strategy consisted to stand in a doorway so that only a few enemies could fight you at a time. I haven’t even tried diablo 2 which seemed just to offer more of the same.

To me, mindless RPG combat isn't a specific type of combat but rather combat that doesn't advance the story or challenge the player (at least the attackers don't challenge them, the sheer number might). A good example to me is the Lionheart combat. At the beginning of the game, it's challenging and advances the story, but by the end, it's just hordes of enemies with no really plot advancement.

Originally Posted by vanedor
Well, after 6-8 months of playing that game SP and on battle.net(and two mouse broken) I realized the futility, the boredom and the stupidity of that game and its mindless combat.

Similar here, although not so extreme and I never played MP (except very, very few sessions with members of the Larian board, which was huge fun to me ! )

At the end, I felt like coming out of a cloud of drug addiction.

I'd definately call diablo type if fighting "mindless" and "boring". not much choice really. you just click on the enemy and thats it… not much thinking nor strategy required.

Even though I was bored of Diablo and did not want to experience another like it, I actually played and liked Divine Divinity. I guess a little depth can really make even "mindless combat" fun.

I agree with blatantninja; to me it's not a specific type of combat, it is whether or not that combat manages to involve and challenge the player.

Divinity had more athmosphere and "feeling" to me than D2.

Plus, it's still the only game I know wherein I can produce honey.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
Divinity had more athmosphere and "feeling" to me than D2.

Plus, it's still the only game I know wherein I can produce honey.

Only game where I had to wash dishes! All in all it definetly had som of its roots in ultima series (7).

In the sametime though divinity was propably more time consuming and costly to develop than diablo.