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May 29th, 2017, 18:11
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
This iron man stuff was already answered. It means nothing.

Streamers play on vet/expert. While they bath in money in the mid/late game, it is nothing like 100K (20k after 200 days which is a nice cushion but that could be eaten fast as replacements do not come cheap 5000 to 8000 gold)

The issue of getting your armour eaten out is so accute streamers computed it was better to sacrifice dogs than getting their armour destroyed.

On streamers being fools, they are open to questions, helpful to explain their vision of the way to play and more than anything, demonstrate it right in front of their viewers.

Talking the talks…
If you only have 20k gold after 200 days send them my way and I will teach them and you how to play the game. They must not know how to repair items in your inventory and selling your items at the large trade centers. They and you must not know about trade routes and buying silk and gems low and selling high. Do you know you need to get max rep at a major trade center to get the best prices buying and selling?

I can keep teaching but school is out son

Ack waste my 1000 post not even on a gamer. I should be talking about Might and Magic and Gothic 2 (favorite games) for my 1000 post.
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May 29th, 2017, 21:12
Streamers know all of this and more. They have run the numbers and know which items are worth repairing and which are not to make a profit. They know of different locations and know how to associate the map layout to profitable situations (leading to impose scarcity to certain places to get higher prices)
Another additional point is that most of them loot their equipment and do not buy it.

Differences in difficulty levels come through pricing. On exp, everything is expensive.
Maybe time to fire a few games on exp/vet.
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May 29th, 2017, 21:25
Originally Posted by Myrthos View Post
What you are saying is that the experience someone gets from watching a bunch of streamers is the same, or perhaps even better, than the experience you get from actually playing the game.

That is a strange position to take. Watching something is never the same as actually experiencing it. Not in games and not in real life, regardless of how many words you spent on saying the opposite.

Do you actually play games? Or do you only watch streams?
Except that this is not what is compared.
As stated already, other people's experience remain other people's experience.

On one hand, there is the experience provided by streamers. It is reliably delivered, it is explained and commented. It is demonstrable and demonstrated.
Over this, it totals over 5000 hour in practise at the very least.

On the other hand, there is the experience provided on here, an experience that is demanded to be favoured over the streamers provided experience in order to discuss.
This experience is vaguely reported, uncheckable, full of inaccuracies and is made from less than 500 in game hours.

As to words, there is no words here but an act, the act of not discarding the experience provided by streamers.

As for people demanding that this experience is discarded, it is no mystery that when they look for their kids education, they look for an environment similar to the one provided by streamers, not as the one they want adopted as the norm.

Acts by wordy people.
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May 29th, 2017, 21:36
Originally Posted by forgottenlor View Post
I certainly have no problem with Chi'en sharing his opinion either. I think though, that perhaps he thinks he shares the same hobby with most of the people on this site, and if so, I (personally) think he is wrong. .
No. It has been stated many times that this site is peopled with players who has no interest in gameplay.
The schism is known.
It has been stated altogether that players learn stuff without ever bothering ever playing a game associated to the knowledge they acquire.

Indeed, this population is likely to be the most numerous in some regard, they pick up a product, learn a bit and move to another.
Any review of any product must be made following that angle and reports about the experience of learning, and keeps out of assessing the product as a game since this dimension was never touched.

In the meantime, gamers must know of the qualities of a product as a game, if it is ever a game.

As to the number of hours, it is globally the same.
Gamers are a low consumption population though. They spend hours on the same game.
Learners are a mass consumption population. They spend 25 hours on each of 40 products.
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May 29th, 2017, 21:41
Well, Chi'en, if you think people are interested in what streamers have to say, or want to discuss it here, you can feel free to provide them in links in a post. That way if people want to discuss it with you, they can.
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May 30th, 2017, 11:01
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
As to words, there is no words here but an act, the act of not discarding the experience provided by streamers.
As for people demanding that this experience is discarded, it is no mystery that when they look for their kids education, they look for an environment similar to the one provided by streamers, not as the one they want adopted as the norm.
No, that is incorrect. Their experience is not discarded. If the streamer or streamers would post here, their experience would not be discarded. But they don't. It is you who post here, with zero experience with the game. You have formed an opinion based on what other people say or do. It is not that your opinions are discarded, they are just valued less than the opinions of those who have played the game and post here. That is the big difference.
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May 30th, 2017, 12:30
I have been following this thread and I know nothing about this game! However just based on the posts on this thread alone, it seems to me that ChienAboyeur knows more about the game than someone who has actually played it by *just* watching the streams only!

So I will not go far as to say that his options are "less" than that of some people who have claimed to played the game!
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May 30th, 2017, 12:48
I personally certainly value them less than the opinion of those who have played the game. I perceive personal experience as more powerful than experience through 'education'.
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May 30th, 2017, 13:36
You may value it more or less, I'm honestly not interested in any of it.
I'm interested in people's active game experience, not opinions on a washing machine capabilities based on watching it's presentations and advertisments.
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May 30th, 2017, 14:24
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
I have been following this thread and I know nothing about this game! However just based on the posts on this thread alone, it seems to me that ChienAboyeur knows more about the game than someone who has actually played it by *just* watching the streams only!

So I will not go far as to say that his options are "less" than that of some people who have claimed to played the game!


I agree with you on the opinions not being valued less.

Problem with me and chien is he assumes his opinions on a game are gospel based on some streams about the game.

I both play and watch streams on this game.

I am sure that what chien says about the optimal ways to play exist, but that doesn't mean that it is the only way to play the game.

I personally much prefer experimenting with different builds on different games.

I'll never play this game on highest difficulty because that would make the game less enjoyable for me, as it won't allow me to experiment. I would then have to play the game in a similar way to chien's descriptions…

However, the way he writes seems to suggest (although that may not be his meaning) to me that there is only one correct way to play the game.




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May 30th, 2017, 15:13
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
I agree with you on the opinions not being valued less.

Problem with me and chien is he assumes his opinions on a game are gospel based on some streams about the game.

I both play and watch streams on this game.

I am sure that what chien says about the optimal ways to play exist, but that doesn't mean that it is the only way to play the game.

I personally much prefer experimenting with different builds on different games.

I'll never play this game on highest difficulty because that would make the game less enjoyable for me, as it won't allow me to experiment. I would then have to play the game in a similar way to chien's descriptions…

However, the way he writes seems to suggest (although that may not be his meaning) to me that there is only one correct way to play the game.




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I agree with you completely. He has some wired ideas and even stranger ways to express himself! However when I am in good mood I do take my time to read what he says since he also has some interesting and new ideas!

I am not hard core gamer and I tend to mostly play on normal, yet I love to experiment as well on my own terms and get lots of fun out of. This is bit which chien will never understand but thats ok too!
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May 30th, 2017, 21:26
Originally Posted by Myrthos View Post
If the streamer or streamers would post here, their experience would not be discarded. But they don't. It is you who post here, with zero experience with the game. You have formed an opinion based on what other people say or do. It is not that your opinions are discarded, they are just valued less than the opinions of those who have played the game and post here. That is the big difference.
Unreal. Streamers provide heaps of experiments on the way of playing BB.
Adding one other experiment will change nothing to this. Especially if that experiment reaches the same conclusion
People must not promise what they do not have in store. Here, the song that suddenly if the conclusion comes from personal experience, it will be not rejected.
It will be rejected as well.
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May 30th, 2017, 21:39
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
I agree with you on the opinions not being valued less.

Problem with me and chien is he assumes his opinions on a game are gospel based on some streams about the game.

I both play and watch streams on this game.

I am sure that what chien says about the optimal ways to play exist, but that doesn't mean that it is the only way to play the game.

I personally much prefer experimenting with different builds on different games.

I'll never play this game on highest difficulty because that would make the game less enjoyable for me, as it won't allow me to experiment. I would then have to play the game in a similar way to chien's descriptions…

However, the way he writes seems to suggest (although that may not be his meaning) to me that there is only one correct way to play the game.




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Back to what was mentioned already: products must be played in a different way in order to be well assessed.

BB is about optimization/min max. Yet instead of reviewing it as a product about optimization/min maxing, people are asked to consider it as something else.

There are obviously a lot of non optimal ways of playing BB. There is a very large number of non optimal builds.

BB is very dry on the number of optimal ways to play it, very dry on the number of optimal builds.
Instead of reporting this lack and weakness in the product, people prefer to point out the number of poor builds they can do.

This line of thought knows no limit. Obviously, character profiles might suit an archer or a melee fighter builds.
It is very unlikely that people stick to developp a melee profile in an archer build or reversely.

Yet by their own way of thinking, they must do that. Yet, people are likely to accept this level of optimization, build a guy with a high range skill into an archer and a guy with a high melee skill into a melee fighter.
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May 30th, 2017, 21:43
Originally Posted by forgottenlor View Post
Well, Chi'en, if you think people are interested in what streamers have to say, or want to discuss it here, you can feel free to provide them in links in a post. That way if people want to discuss it with you, they can.
Streamers are past the point of experimenting. Finding streams is also easy.
Beside, the material provided by streamers is hardly material for discussion. Like discussing the path of a train travelling on the same railways.
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June 5th, 2017, 21:50
Usually, in the ugoigo format, going first is strongly sought as it provides so much.
BB differ from that as players quite often give up on going first. Initiative is a soft stat, that many consider useless.
Streamers usually avoid spending points on initiative.

Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
I am not hard core gamer
It is about liking.
30 hours is about the same time a guy who does not like it would spend on it.
300 hours, the number of hours a guy spends to figure it out.

800, 900 hours, that is the mark, people show they like the product.
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July 20th, 2017, 16:23
Battle brothers now on gog
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July 23rd, 2017, 11:50
Originally Posted by Hastar View Post
Battle brothers now on gog
Yes, hooray! Even though it is in the key giveaway, I went ahead and bought it anyway. It gives me a Battle for Wesnoth vibe, and I hope I'll enjoy it enough before the difficulty spikes
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