Steam Greenlight - Now Open

joxer said:

I've thumbed down probably 99% of things marked as RPG, not to mention I've reported a few troll entries that were not even funny like this one:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=93313441&searchtext=

Click to expand...

Yes, a lot of stuff incorrectly tagged RPG.

Nameless one said:

Here is interesting opinion on Greenligh on Indierpgs.com I think it's worth read.

http://indierpgs.com/2012/08/opinion-greenlight-shouldnt-have-been-greenlighted/

Click to expand...

Interesting article and I can certainly sympathize with the author.

However, after clicking through to see the author's project, Phantasmaburbia, I don't think it's "trolls and jealous competitors" down voting his game. I think a lot of people simply find it unappealing.

I would have been inclined to vote Phantasmaburbia down as well. I've voted up quite a few projects (even a couple of text adventure games), but I don't find this game interesting in the slightest.

Something interesting about the up / down mechanism and the debate that's been going on around it: As a dev I was told what percentage of reactions were likes and dislikes and then it suddenly disappeared. Either it was meant to only be shown for a while and then disappear past a number of views or clicks, or they changed their minds and removed it for everyone, or it's just me and I'm in trouble

CountChocula said:

.
Interesting article and I can certainly sympathize with the author.

However, after clicking through to see the author's project, Phantasmaburbia, I don't think it's "trolls and jealous competitors" down voting his game. I think a lot of people simply find it unappealing.

I would have been inclined to vote Phantasmaburbia down as well. I've voted up quite a few projects (even a couple of text adventure games), but I don't find this game interesting in the slightest.

Click to expand...

I am unfamiliar with Mr. Lobanov's work but I agree with him on some points.On few RPG that I am following(Underrail,FK,AoD,Inquistor and few others)I seen in comments that people downvoted games just because that are turn based or have indie graphic.Also before they removed upvote/downvote number I seen more downvotes than upvotes on rampant collection list(which contains only few good indie RPGs).

Edit:From inquisitor comment section

Sounds like anti-pagan bigotry and Christian ra ra to me. Downvote

Click to expand...

I think this comment show what kind of people do I mean.

The up/down ratio was indeed removed for everyone.

http://forums.steamgames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=32641782&postcount=9

I just read Lobanov's article and disagree with the geist of it. Making Steam doesn't make or break the game. Winter Voices was on Steam and the devs (whose office was in my neighborhood) went bankrupt. Minecraft is not on Steam and I think it safe to say bankruptcy is the least of Markus Persson's concerns.

Being in a catalog doesn't guarantee anything. Even if a project lands a slot on Steam, it's success will depend on their own marketing efforts (notwithstanding quality of the game, which is assumed since we're contemplating Steam inclusion). Actually, being included on Steam depends on our marketing efforts since those likes and pageviews on the heavy hitters largely come from the game's current fanbase.

Nameless one said:

I am unfamiliar with Mr. Lobanov's work but I agree with him on some points.On few RPG that I am following(Underrail,FK,AoD,Inquistor and few others)I seen in comments that people downvoted games just because that are turn based or have indie graphic.Also before they removed upvote/downvote number I seen more downvotes than upvotes on rampant collection list(which contains only few good indie RPGs).

Click to expand...

If a particular Steam user truly dislikes all games with turn based combat, or 8-bit graphics style, or even games that begin with the letter "A," for example, how is their opinion any less valid than mine or yours?

This is a somewhat different promotional system from a Kickstarter, for example, where the idea is to provide a space to share information about your project and persuade a certain number of people to pledge payment to buy into the project.

In the case of Greenlight, the idea seems to be more along the lines of facilitating direct interaction between Steam community members and indie developers, with each member able to share feedback on any project in the form of comments or a thumbs up/ thumbs down rating. Approval of submitted projects is not based on a specific number of thumbs up ratings, but a comparison with other submitted projects and some other metrics.

If there are simply more people interested in the highly polished games, and those are the ones that get greenlit, at the end of the day, at least a few more indie games are being published on Steam.

CountChocula said:

If a particular Steam user truly dislikes all games with turn based combat, or 8-bit graphics style, or even games that begin with the letter "A," for example, how is their opinion any less valid than mine or yours?

Click to expand...

People can dislike combat system,setting and other things in game but that doesn't mean they should sabotage game that is potentially great game for targeted audience.I don't like racing games and most shooters but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't like for good ones to pass for people that actually like them.

Nameless one said:

People can dislike combat system,setting and other things in game but that doesn't mean they should sabotage game that is potentially great game for targeted audience.I don't like racing games and most shooters but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't like for good ones to pass for people that actually like them.

Click to expand...

Is downvoting because you dislike a combat system, genre or setting ultimately any different from downvoting because you dislike the voice acting, or because you think a game looks very poorly made?

This isn't sabotaging a game; rather Valve has actually asked users to evaluate submitted proposals based on our own personal and subjective tastes. There is a thumbs down button, are we not supposed to use it anything other than plagiarized entries? There is a separate report button for that.

The way the Greenlight UI is designed, you have a message at the top of your screen indicating "You have X number of items awaiting your rating." This is a sort of queue and the only way to remove those items from your queue is to rate them either up or down. It's a bit similar to the Netflix ratings process, but instead of choosing from among five stars, you choose thumbs up or thumbs down.

Many of us may choose thumbs up for an item we may not enjoy personally, but would like to see it on Steam as we feel perhaps our friends might enjoy it, etc. If someone else is only choosing games they would personally like to see and downrating every genre they hate, out of 40 million users I think this has still got to be helpful feedback for Valve.

Otherwise, if you only vote up those game projects you like, and refrain from voting anything down, you are not providing Valve with your personal feedback on all those other projects.

CountChocula said:

Is downvoting because you dislike a combat system, genre or setting ultimately any different from downvoting because you dislike the voice acting, or because you think a game looks very poorly made?

This isn't sabotaging a game; rather Valve has actually asked users to evaluate submitted proposals based on our own personal and subjective tastes. There is a thumbs down button, are we not supposed to use it anything other than plagiarized entries? There is a separate report button for that.

Click to expand...

I understand purpose of downvote button but lot of people don't want to give useful feedback they just want for game that doesn't fit their taste to fail.

CountChocula said:

Many of us may choose thumbs up for an item we may not enjoy personally, but would like to see it on Steam as we feel perhaps our friends might enjoy it, etc. If someone else is only choosing games they would personally like to see and downrating every genre they hate, out of 40 million users I think this has still got to be helpful feedback for Valve.

Otherwise, if you only vote up those game projects you like, and refrain from voting anything down, you are not providing Valve with your personal feedback on all those other projects.

Click to expand...

I only vote on games that I tried or I been following.I don't vote on projects I know nothing about because I can't provide useful feedback.

I don't think downvoting means much since valve is more interested in upvote/favorites stats(potential buyers),I am sure most of RPGs in this thread will reach steam(or maybe I am just too optimistic) so I don't think downvotes hurt projects that much I just don't like ethics behind it.

Nameless one said:

I understand purpose of downvote button but lot of people don't want to give useful feedback they just want for game that doesn't fit their taste to fail.

Click to expand...

I can relate to the frustration some developers might experience, as I uploaded a mod to Steam Workshop and within a few seconds someone immediately downvoted it, definitely without having had any time to download and actually try the mod.

Certainly, many of the people rating the Steam Greenlight projects may only perform a cursory glance at the description and screenshots, or watch a brief portion of a trailer, and perhaps developers feel they aren't giving their project a fair shake. However, if a game doesn't fit someone's taste, for whatever reason, isn't the thumbs down their way of providing their feedback?

Many of these projects are submitted without any trailer at all, or might benefit from a more detailed description, or more screenshots, etc., but this is the face these projects are presenting to the Steam community. If someone votes down a project because the presentation is lacking, I feel that is as valid a reason as any.

Valve could have implemented a Thumbs Up, Thumbs Down and Neutral button, but obviously a neutral button would provide absolutely no meaningful feedback to Valve. In this way, not providing any rating at all is less helpful than a thumbs down button. Accordingly, Valve has designed the Greenlight UI in a way to guide users to provide some kind of rating, whether positive or negative, for everything in one's queue. After all, this is the pool of people who will be eventually voting with their dollars to either buy the game or not.

I don't think downvoting means much since valve is more interested in upvote/favorites stats(potential buyers),I am sure most of RPGs in this thread will reach steam(or maybe I am just too optimistic) so I don't think downvotes hurt projects that much I just don't like ethics behind it.

Click to expand...

Yeah I think its there mostly to give someone who dislikes the game (for easily understandable or downright whacky reasons) a way to feel they've expressed that without being disruptive. Its an outlet that may be intended to marginally reduce trolling in comment threads for certain games.

The upvotes are what really matter to them in this case; how many people want and will buy the game is what matters in terms of it being worth selling. Its not like those downvotes correlate to some negative projected sales figure in the same way upvotes might be expected to correlate to expected sales strength (to some degree).

Kenshi is on Greenlight too: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=92933311&searchtext=

And it seems they now have a threshold as Kenshi has 2% thumbs up needed.

Pladio said:

Kenshi is on Greenlight too: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=92933311&searchtext=

And it seems they now have a threshold as Kenshi has 2% thumbs up needed.

Click to expand...

That is anything but a percentage of thumbs up needed since some games with 1000+ are still at 0% and others with 700 are at 1%. I'd say don't even try to understand it, it's there to get people talking and buzzing.

Edit - Oh there's also the distinction between favorite and thumbs up. That figure on the right, below the pageviews, is favorites. Number of thumbs up doesn't show anywhere. So you may be right about the percentage, but I still doubt it since I've seen it go up and back down for AoD for instance.

Already faved Kenshi

Tales of Maj'Eyal is on greenlight.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=93674769&searchtext=

Nameless one said:

I don't think downvoting means much since valve is more interested in upvote/favorites stats(potential buyers),I am sure most of RPGs in this thread will reach steam(or maybe I am just too optimistic) so I don't think downvotes hurt projects that much I just don't like ethics behind it.

Click to expand...

They also want to sell. Downward voting indicates the number of people that wont buy the game so it gives prioritizing a direction.

Kenshi and Project Zomboid has now been greenlit

Congratz to them! Both are great games.