Dead State - Beta Patch #1 Released

The graphics aren't great, but I don't think the problems stop there. For a game that's been announced for so long (I'm quite sure that two or more years have passed) and it appears to never be complete, it does lack a lot of stuff. And it doesn't seem to be getting better. Is it getting larger? Maybe, but that's not enough. For all the problems it has the only zombie game for me is still State of Decay. It shares the state with this one, fortunately it's only the word.

The visuals are not the primary issue. They are not stellar for sure but they offer what is expected and helps installing an atmosphere.

The issues are the ways they are going to correct the changes in design, practically, the combat system needs an overhaul.

And more than this, how they manage to keep the player on the pace of developpment of the storyline.

Players are not interested in gameplay on this site, so a decading gameplay is nothing.
But the story, the associated representation must be preserved. It is not the case at the moment.

Things went extremelly slow for one year and half. They sped up when they released on Steam. It started from that point actually. Before that, it stalled.
 
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To understand what other people are talking about, it's key to remember that people are different.

Another good way to get there, is to stop taking it personally when people disagree. It's much easier to understand an opinion you don't agree with, if you accept that it's there - instead of trying to make it wrong at the outset.

I'm not expecting miracles, though. The rune_74 I remember never had an easy time allowing for other opinions.

As for Dead State, sure, it looks sort of like The Sims (the first one) - and that's what's wrong.

But, thankfully, that's just my opinion.

Not sure what your GTA statement was about. I'm guessing it had to do with MigRib saying he likes State of Decay? So, that somehow means he wants all zombie games to be GTA, right?

Sounds like the Rune I remember ;)

State of decay is a GTA version of zombie games....which makes it a totally different game then we are talking about and is relevant to the conversation.

Nah it looks as good as the sims 2 at least...it's not going to win any awards but it is very playable, which is my opinion...

I'm going to ignore the rest of your personal comments feel free to message me if you want to discuss my characteristics instead of using them in the forum.
 
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State of decay is a GTA version of zombie games….which makes it a totally different game then we are talking about and is relevant to the conversation.

Nah it looks as good as the sims 2 at least…it's not going to win any awards but it is very playable, which is my opinion…

I'm going to ignore the rest of your personal comments feel free to message me if you want to discuss my characteristics instead of using them in the forum.

If you think you can decide for the entire thread that MigRib's comment on what he likes in the genre is irrelevant, you're kidding yourself.

I'll go along with a compromise and say it looks like Sims 1.5 :)

As for your attempt at a high-ground response, that's kinda cute. But I didn't poke you to discuss your flaws. That was just to annoy you a bit ;)

I love doing that to deliberately obtuse silly people!
 
If you think you can decide for the entire thread that MigRib's comment on what he likes in the genre is irrelevant, you're kidding yourself.

I'll go along with a compromise and say it looks like Sims 1.5 :)

As for your attempt at a high-ground response, that's kinda cute. But I didn't poke you to discuss your flaws. That was just to annoy you a bit ;)

I love doing that to deliberately obtuse silly people!

Well, you haven't changed.

I'm not even sure where you are going with this other then to try and twist into something it's not. Don't have the time or inclination to bother with trying to figure out your motives this time.

If you want to say all games should be considered in the same vein sure...but in my opinion state of decay(which I think is a good game) isn't the same as dead state, they both are going for a very different approach to the genre.
 
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State of decay is a GTA version of zombie games….which makes it a totally different game then we are talking about and is relevant to the conversation.

Nah it looks as good as the sims 2 at least…it's not going to win any awards but it is very playable, which is my opinion…

I'm going to ignore the rest of your personal comments feel free to message me if you want to discuss my characteristics instead of using them in the forum.

GTA? I can't remember having to scrounge for food, ammo, weapons (or anything else for that matter) in GTA. They have stores and you can rob people. The Zombie Apocalipse did not happen there (unless there was a mod for that) So, because the character move and they move with the WASD keys and not by point and clicking a mouse it suddenly turn into GTA?
If my so called comparison between Dead State and State of Decay (which wasn't a comparison, I stated that, just said that among the looooong list of zombie games - excluding the excellent Telltale's Walking Dead - State of Decay is my favourite) is so off the mark then comparing State of Decay to GTA goes a very long way further.
Anyway, that game seems to be in the works forever (I know it just went beta recently, but I'm almost sure I heard about it maybe two years ago). For something that was (at least) planed two years ago it seems to be moving pretty slowly.
Well, anyway, I don't own the game, I don't think I ever will, unless it changes a lot for the better, so I'm done on this thread.
 
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GTA? I can't remember having to scrounge for food, ammo, weapons (or anything else for that matter) in GTA. They have stores and you can rob people. The Zombie Apocalipse did not happen there (unless there was a mod for that) So, because the character move and they move with the WASD keys and not by point and clicking a mouse it suddenly turn into GTA?
If my so called comparison between Dead State and State of Decay (which wasn't a comparison, I stated that, just said that among the looooong list of zombie games - excluding the excellent Telltale's Walking Dead - State of Decay is my favourite) is so off the mark then comparing State of Decay to GTA goes a very long way further.
Anyway, that game seems to be in the works forever (I know it just went beta recently, but I'm almost sure I heard about it maybe two years ago). For something that was (at least) planed two years ago it seems to be moving pretty slowly.
Well, anyway, I don't own the game, I don't think I ever will, unless it changes a lot for the better, so I'm done on this thread.

2 years and in beta for a small team isn't forever in the computer world...I'm just not seeing it. You should look a bit more into it, there seems to be a lot you don't know about it. State of decay is an action rpg(barely rpg) and this is a turn based rpg...pretty big difference.
 
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2 years and in beta for a small team isn't forever in the computer world…I'm just not seeing it. You should look a bit more into it, there seems to be a lot you don't know about it. State of decay is an action rpg(barely rpg) and this is a turn based rpg…pretty big difference.

I'm not arguing that State of Decay is an RPG. It is not. I wouldn't even call it an action RPG. Maybe an action adventure with some RPG features. Dead State wants to be an RPG, but because of many reasons I've already explained in other posts (and I'm not repeting once again) tactical RPGs are a contradiction in terms (nevermind if it's real time or turn based, if it's tactical it's closer to wargames than to RPGs).
And yes, there's a lot of things I don't know. Quite a lot, especially technical stuff about how games are made. I don't really care about that. About RPGs, on the other hand, I'm sure I know quite a lot. About 25 years of role playing (pen & paper, of course) taught me a few things. One of them is that there's only a dozen or so decent translations of pen & paper into cRPG and most of them are hated by most of the people on this forum. Another thing I know is that, unfortunately, tactical games and skirmish games - where characters level up - are now the norm for labeling a video game an RPG.
 
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Players are not interested in gameplay on this site, so a decading gameplay is nothing.
But the story, the associated representation must be preserved. It is not the case at the moment.

Are you sure about that one? Last I checked, I'm very interested in gameplay.
 
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One of them is that there's only a dozen or so decent translations of pen & paper into cRPG and most of them are hated by most of the people on this forum. Another thing I know is that, unfortunately, tactical games and skirmish games - where characters level up - are now the norm for labeling a video game an RPG.

I do get your point and sounds reasonable, and I am curious as to which crpgs you consider as decent p&p translations?

This is an honest question by the way so please don't take it the wrong way.
 
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I do get your point and sounds reasonable, and I am curious as to which crpgs you consider as decent p&p translations?

This is an honest question by the way so please don't take it the wrong way.

Of course I won't take it the wrong way! But I'm expecting to be stabbed right away by a dozen of forum users
Well, as a friend of mine usually says, the ONE AND TRUE translation of a pen & paper RPG is… The Sims. Specially if you have a lot of expansions and mods instaled. I kind of agree with him, though I don't really like the Sims. Of course in this case we have to look at the translation of a modern RPG and not a traditional one. The player sometimes is the game master, other times the game master is the AI, sometimes the player is just a player, other times he is God. And sometimes he is just the guy who isn'r really playing but is watching the game session… Other than that it's the game where character's always have purposes, they can change over time, their story lines don't exist until you create them, the world is as much defined by the devs as it is created and modified by the player… Well a lot of things that I can relate easily to a true pen & paper RPG. The only problem is that The Sims is a real life RPG as seen by the eyes of a nortern american teenager. It's not perfect, but it is what it is. And it is an RPG.
Others that I have accomodated in my mind as great translations of p&p RPGs (though they are not even labeled as such) are the latest works of Telltale Games, The Walking Dead and The Wolf Among Us. True you can't choose your character and you can't even modify them. But the choices you make are as meaningful as they come and the relation between characters and NPCs have an impact in the narratory evolution - well, I'm not naïve, they are made to look much more meaningful than they really are, but if you don't replay the games more than twice it does look that most choices you make a difference. But, again this is not perfect, and again it relates mostly to recent p&p RPGs where mechanics don't play a rule as important as in more traditional titles (I'm thinking about Primetime Adventures, of course, as it depicts TV series, the same as Telltale is trying to do).
Now for more traditional experiences of pen & paper turned to cRPGs. I find that open worlds, with 1st person view, character customization and evolution, with skills and other characteristics available and open choices of dialogue that lead into different paths are the most adequate translations. All this served with graphics that are realistic enough and voice acting (I find the voice acting the most important, even more than graphics as artistic choices sometimes don't obligate to realism, but good acting is essential for immersion in a fictional work). As such, games like Fallout 3, Skyrim and Fallout New Vegas are among my preferences. Though not open world, Deus Ex: Human Evolution has a lot of potential to it.
But, and this is an important but, sometimes the open world is not that important. BioWare is not keen to open worlds, but they managed to create apparently meaningful relations among PCs and NPCs and even among NPCs themselves. It works nice when companions make remarks about each other, the places you visit and the character's actions. And when this relations change because of player's choices. Because of that I add to the group of games I admire Knights of the Old Republic and the sequel, the Mass Effect Trilogy and the not-yet-but-soon-to-be Dragon Age Trilogy (though I must admit that the action bits turn to be repetitive after some time).
Of course that there are many other games I enjoyed over the time, some of them are closer than other to what I consider a proper translation of a role playing pen & paper game to a video game. The Risen trilogy does it, but I I'm not a big fan of it's humorous side. Rckstars games are great on immersion, and their open worlds are excelente setting, but they lack a lot of characteristics to make them RPGs.
And despite all of it's flaws and bugs, Vampire the Masquerade Bloolines is (probably) the best adaptation of a pen & paper to a video game, not only because it does it very good, but specialy because it was in fact a real adaptation of an existent game by White Wolf.
I'm sure I forgot a lot of examples here, but I think that this is enough (and too extense, really) to explain my point of view. In fact, I should copy the contents of this reply when there is another disagreament about my point of view ;)
 
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Good answer MigRib, thanks for sharing your point of view. I wouldn't say most of those are hated on this forum, I would actually say almost no one hates those games. VtMB is on alot of if not everyone's top ten. Most of them aren't my favourites, since I probably actually like "War games" more than Rpg's if we look at it with you definition, but I hate none of those games and love four of them…
 
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Thank you MigRib, I enjoyed reading your views and I agree with most of them.

Of course I won't take it the wrong way! But I'm expecting to be stabbed right away by a dozen of forum users

They are good guys, they just like teasing so don't let them hurt more than few pixels:lol:.
 
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Glad to know it. I don't post that often and I already had a few arguments some time ago, but, of course I was kidding about the stabbing part. Maybe just a few kicks in the head... Anyway, lately I found my points of view on what I like and what I dislike in CRPGs vs p&p RPGs less ofensive to other users of the Watch than it was before. Maybe it's a seasonal thing, maybe there are new member that tend to agree more or disagree less with me or, most probably, it was just coincidence.
 
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Glad to know it. I don't post that often and I already had a few arguments some time ago, but, of course I was kidding about the stabbing part. Maybe just a few kicks in the head… Anyway, lately I found my points of view on what I like and what I dislike in CRPGs vs p&p RPGs less ofensive to other users of the Watch than it was before. Maybe it's a seasonal thing, maybe there are new member that tend to agree more or disagree less with me or, most probably, it was just coincidence.

Nah, I actually only think you're getting better at delivering your opinions with some good arguments. I know I've read alot of your posts thinking you have no idea what you're talking about…but with a little background and more fleshed out information on what you actually mean and what you want from an RPG, it's much easier to respect your point of view and your commentd, even if we want different things from our games.

I wouldn't be worried about "your" games if I were you though, Fallout 4 nor TES 6 will hardly be neither turn based nor isometric, and those kind of AAA RPG's need far higher sales numbers to break even than all the Kickstarters that are starting to arrive now. I don't think games of that magnitude are possible without some heavy publisher funding, that's why no almost one exept Bethesta & Bioware are making them. You'll have The Witcher 3 this year and probably DA:I too.

Let us have our turn based tactical semi RPG feast, you know we've been starving for about 15 years…
 
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Nah, I actually only think you're getting better at delivering your opinions with some good arguments. I know I've read alot of your posts thinking you have no idea what you're talking about…but with a little background and more fleshed out information on what you actually mean and what you want from an RPG, it's much easier to respect your point of view and your commentd, even if we want different things from our games.

Sorry for still being OT but I'll shut up just after the break. Maybe you caught me in a middle of an argument,I know I explained the topics above several times. Or maybe I was talking about my other not-so-popular opinion, that games should be more cinematic. Including RPGs, but that's aplicable to others as well.

I wouldn't be worried about "your" games if I were you though, Fallout 4 nor TES 6 will hardly be neither turn based nor isometric, and those kind of AAA RPG's need far higher sales numbers to break even than all the Kickstarters that are starting to arrive now. I don't think games of that magnitude are possible without some heavy publisher funding, that's why no almost one exept Bethesta & Bioware are making them. You'll have The Witcher 3 this year and probably DA:I too.

Let us have our turn based tactical semi RPG feast, you know we've been starving for about 15 years…

I'm not worried about those games. I know next to nothing about game design and the video game industry, but it's enough to know that Bethesda and BioWare wouldn't start making tactical RPGs just because it's fashionable now. I've just noticed that most other companies - the middle sized ones, not the AAA - though still producing "my kind of RPGs" aren't taking many risks, which, in the case of RPGs means making fantasy games (and I have little tolerance for fantasy, I'll take my dose of Skyrim, Dragon Age and The Witcher, but that's quite enough). And that's not speculation, just following the news it can be seen that is a fact. Of course, it can change. I hope so. And those are not the guys who are preparing your turn based tactical RPG feast anyway, so you won't starve for another 15 years.
Turning to topic now, I've seen some interesting stuff coming from the crowdfunding wave, CONSORTIUM was one them. The Mandate is another. The Long Dark - though it's not an RPG - is another and Dead State could be still be another. As far as I know it isn't supposed to have the ammount of combat of, let's say, Wasteland 2 or Shadowrun Returns. It looks like more of a scrounging and managing assets game, with some NPC interaction and a few zombie/ badass survivors bashing. Still it would be much better with voice acting. Or maybe another soundtrack. The current one is too monotone. But, as I said previously I didn't buy nor played the game, just watched others playing, so I might be wrong.
 
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Dead State, on paper, sounds like a great game. I'm even more interested in it knowing that Brian Mitsoda is working on it.

I'm usually not one for zombies but if it's a deep RPG, I become more intrigued.
 
Are you sure about that one? Last I checked, I'm very interested in gameplay.

Forums are places of public expression. They are what their members express. And the expression here is on story and representation. Gameplay is non existent.

Like challenging the expression of a forum that is about dogs because you are very interested into cats.
 
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Forums are places of public expression. They are what their members express. And the expression here is on story and representation. Gameplay is non existent.

Like challenging the expression of a forum that is about dogs because you are very interested into cats.

The above makes no sense whatsoever, and the comparison to cats and dogs is laughable. I'd argue that sure, a lot of the people on RPGWatch value story highly. Some are more into mechanics and gameplay. Most however, care about both. If I only cared about story I would play totally different games than I do. Or better yet, watch a movie.
 
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Of course I won't take it the wrong way! But I'm expecting to be stabbed right away by a dozen of forum users
Well, as a friend of mine usually says, the ONE AND TRUE translation of a pen & paper RPG is… The Sims.

PnP RPGs are based on rulebooks.

From that point, nobody can guarantee what happens around a table. Rulebooks are words on paper that can lead to any sort of outcomes.

With the same rulesets, you could find groups of players doing:

- the deviancy called munchkin/XPwhorism, players not interested in role playing and that prefer to overide it by the running numbers to find an optimal build
-narrativist play, players not interested in role playing and that prefer to priviledge the quality and the elaboration of the story line
-role play
Same rule books, different uses.
No guarantee at all.

Calling for a translation of what happens around a PnP table leads to nowhere.
WL2 is a game built for XPwhorism. It is very well done in this regard, know the target audience and treats the whole of it with humour.
People who play that way around a PnP table see in this type of game the translation of what they do around a PnP table, rightfully.

Another thing is the degeneration of the term RPG that affects also PnP gaming.

For years, authors stayed away from making a PnP RPG out Gameworkshop WH40k.
The demand was there but the universe isnt conducive to a RPG.
The very popular Space Marines have a role, a social function in this universe, but their role is so binding, the constraints so demanding, swaying out of the role so fiercely punished, it is not possible to make a RPG out of it as people would want to play a SM.

A few years ago, an editor released a ruleset dedicated to WH40K, under the label of RPG.
Among hundreds of pages, an excuse of two leaves on roleplaying, described as an essential and important part (but yet only two among hundreds) The rest is dedicated to the fluff, how to recreate combat, arsenal, the bestiary...
It is a ruleset to organize skirmishes with every player being given one character.

As it is not possible to get a RPG out of WH40K, players coming to RPG through this book do around the table what they would do in WL2. The very same.
 
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