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April 11th, 2017, 20:13
[QUOTE=Myrthos;1061445567

For the rest I would suggest actually learning something of history and not make things up to get history aligned with your beliefs. When the predecessor of the EU was founded there was absolutely no decline of steel and coal production in Europe. That only happened much later. As far as steel production goes, the EU is the second largest producer after China at this moment.
For coal this is somewhat different as 3 decades after the start of the predecessor of the EU, coal mines started to close in Western Europe. Coal production is in decline world wide, however the EU is the fourth or fifth largest supplier of coal.

[/QUOTE]

The agreements in question were signed in the fifties (the agreement on coal and steel in the late fifties, some would state it was decided in the early fifties)
In the 1960s already, deep social crisis connected to coal decline hit european nations to end at the beginning of the 1980s.

So stretched to the limit:
1950, signing of the agreement, 1960 to 1980: nations shaken by the decline of coal.
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April 11th, 2017, 20:36
The peak of coal mine production in Western Europe was between 1959-1961, depending on the country. In 1950, when the first talks started and in 1952 on signing of the treaty, coal productions were rising all throughout Europe. So, what you are saying is that while the amount of coal produced was still rising, they already could foresee that 10 years later there would be a decline?
Next thing you will probably say is that they also predicted that some 30-40 years later the steel production would decline in Western Europe (although in the EU overall it would still be rising). After all it was the European Coal and Steel Community.
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April 13th, 2017, 11:56
I'm not that well-versed in this topic, so does anyone mind enlightening me why the introduction of the Euro currency was a mistake?
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April 13th, 2017, 17:42
In short: because introduction of the common currency wasn't accompanied by the establishment of a common economic and financial policy. So each country is fully in control of its own domestic economic policies while not facing the full consequences of their choices.
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April 13th, 2017, 17:51
Originally Posted by Farflame View Post
Only short OT reaction: Yes, he is "through and through democrat" in comparison to never elected flunkeys and beaurocrats in EU structures like EC who dare to threaten countries, try to impose orders on them and silence political opponents in parliament that "dare" to have different opinion (what a crime in EU nowadays, right?).
1- if not for the EU Hungary would have been a one party state by now.
2- Orban knows the rules yet, like a child, he tests just how far he can bend them before he gets slapped.
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April 14th, 2017, 13:44
Originally Posted by Myrthos View Post
The peak of coal mine production in Western Europe was between 1959-1961, depending on the country. In 1950, when the first talks started and in 1952 on signing of the treaty, coal productions were rising all throughout Europe. So, what you are saying is that while the amount of coal produced was still rising, they already could foresee that 10 years later there would be a decline?
After reading the piece several times, it is not possible to make some sense of it.
A finite quantity is consumed faster and faster. No decline of the rate in consumption can be predicted as long as the rate of consumption is still increasing.
Next thing you will probably say is that they also predicted that some 30-40 years later the steel production would decline in Western Europe (although in the EU overall it would still be rising). After all it was the European Coal and Steel Community.
No. The proposition is about steel and coal. Not steel or coal. As soon one of them is invalid, the whole proposition is invalid.
As WW2 crowned oil as the energy of choice for war, it is far more than enough to show the coal claim out.
If those countries had put their oil industry in common, there could have been a case for the war avoidance thing.
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April 21st, 2017, 14:07
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
I don't know anything about the EU or Brexit, but I hope that it gets resolved in a way that makes all of Europe stronger.
When one grows stronger by making another weaker, it is not possible for both to grow stronger.
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