Bottom 10 CRPGs Of All Time

Hey hey, welcome to our forums, blatantninja! :)

@Stanza: I just played it for about ten minutes at a trade fair when Mistmare was still in its alpha stage. The surroundings were detrimental to immersion, so I cannot say I got a feel for the game.
 
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3) TOEE - Again, really wanted to like this. However, never got more than about 20 minutes into it. I like turn based combat, but not where it totally stops between each turn. Killed the game for me. If there was a way to make it function like other turn based (BG series, etc.), I'd give it another chance.

BG is not at all turn-based for me.

The turn-based combat of BG is in my opinion just a ... shadow of *real* turn-based combat.

The "turn-based" combat in BG looked to me as if they were hastily adding something they didn't want - and wanted real-time combat instead.

I hate using pause functions to emulate "real" turn-based combat.

And I know I will hate Drakensang for it, because the implementation will be the same.

I still don't undertstand why they did do a turn-based game engine, but adding real-time combat instead - and "pause functions" to emulate what could've been possible in BG.

Thank God I had Age of Wonders when I wanted *real* turn-based combat.

And, besides, the challenge of this turn-based combat was to me all that kept my interest of Pool of Radiance alive - except from the exploring, of course.
 
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Ok, here's my take then on the worst rpg of all time...

1. Pool of Radiance 2: Ruins of Myth Drannor - eh this game just looked and played awkard
2. Lionheart - would have liked to like this game, but just 'no'.
3. Lands of Lore 2 (and 3) - boring -
4. Gorasul - eh what ? boring and not fun -
5. There's a game where you start on board a ship. It's not morrowind but you play in first person, too, and you walk around in town, visiting the merchants and such. I can't remember the name of this game right now? Maybe you guys can help ?
6. Prince of Quin - a nice little game which I had to give up on since the gameplay simply was too hard for me. (incl. the combat).
7. reserved (maybe wizardry 8)
8. MM9 - what a letdown after all those fine Might and Magic games...
9. reserved (maybe ultima 8 or 9)
10. Legend - Hand of God. I tried to like this game, but after the xxth time, the game crashed my computer, I gave up. Also, I didn't really like the story nor the control scheme for the game.

Disappointed (in part) by Oblivion, NWN2, Gothic 3, Fallout: Tactics.

/aries100
 
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1. Oblivion - is there any reason to LIKE it?? worst game ever graphics is great though.
2. KoToR - Horrible in every sense full of bugs, and boring choices and characters how can starwars become so boring, play Dark Forces or Rebel Assult instead great games!
3. Baldur's gate 1 - Uninspired boring combat, uninteresting story and characters
4. Baldur's gate 2 - Uninspired boring combat, uninteresting story and characters
5. NWN - Uninspired boring combat, uninteresting story and characters
6. Morrowind - Like the other person said, gives a great first impression until you realise it is an empty shell.
7. Daggerfall - Too many bugs and problem, otherwise could've been great.
8. NWN2 - The combat is just too boring, bad characters.
9. Dungeon Lords - No comments needed.
10. Ultima 9 ( because of my expectations ) - I acctually loved parts of Ultima 9 but it felt like one big Tease Look what a great game we could MAKE but we have fucked it up completely because EA wants us to make UO!

LOL it looks like except for dungeon lords... this list is the same as someone else's toplist.... so I had better add I have not listed games that are soo bad that I didn't bother to play them enough to give my opinion!

you sure do dislike lots of popular games
 
6. Prince of Quin - a nice little game which I had to give up on since the gameplay simply was too hard for me. (incl. the combat).
Hmm. The Codex guys recommended that one to me. I thought the combat was OK, but having gone to college to study English and writing, I just could not get past the dialogue. It was awful, and I couldn't look past it to see the other good parts of the game. I'm jealous of those who can get past it. But in any case, since you've mentioned it and I also disliked it (for reasons different from yours) I will make that the #10 item on my list:

10. Prince of Qin.

Bad game, for me. YMMV.

(Since I mentioned the Codex guys, I thought I'd also mention that this thread would have broken down into all-out warfare if it were over there, simply because many people in this topic have referred to turn-based combat incorrectly. That's a big sin, in their religion. Turn-based is where each character or NPC gets a turn to do something while everyone else waits. Like taking turns in chess or pen-and-paper role playing games. In games like KotOR and BG, it's not turn-based at all -- combatants can all land attacks at the same moment, and if you pause, you can issue orders to all the members of your party at once. Technically, I believe that's referred to as phase-based gameplay. Having clarified that, I admit that I prefer the sloppiness of terminology over here. It's more relaxing, and we all know what everyone is getting at, anyway.)
 
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We've had numerous TB vs Phased debates both here and back at the Dot, but most of just don't care about the terminology, as you quite correctly state, we all know what everyone is getting at anyway!! :)
 
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That sort of thing is why I asked for distinction between 'bad' and 'don't like'

That sort of thing is why I asked for distinction between 'bad' and 'don't like'.

Well, I think all of these games are in the top of bad ones I played. But like I wrote in my post I am not listing games that I only played for like one hour and trashed. I do not think I have the right to judge them after such a short time!

OO, and I had better say I judged NWN & NWN 2 OC only!

I know Mike does a lot of reviews, and he'd be bashed to no end if he gave some of these games a bad score. But I'll be hard pressed to say anything positive of the games I listed, even if I tried to... except Oblivion has beautiful graphics, but we are discussing games, not art here! Some of these games may also be OK as FPS ( Oblivion for example ) but not as CRPG.

Most of these games are also very focused on combat, so if I think the combat is really bad, it'll make the gameplay bad and therefore the game bad. I am also not really into this good vs evil choices,, I never got the point you just choose like will I roleplay good or evil, and see which ending it leads to. It is always obvious which choice is evil one and which one is good, in the Witcher they finally got it right! no good / evil choices, things are not black or white in this world!
 
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No - but the distinction between Dungeon Lords and Oblivion is a great one. I share your opinions - I really liked DL much more than I objectively should have, and found Oblivion a well-made game that I really could never get past the flaws.

TBH I think that "plain bad" is multi-dimensional too, as something can be objectively bad due to flawed execution (e g any buggy game) or due to horrid design choices while still possibly being well-made products. To use the same old example I would say that the respawning in Dungeon Lords as well as the choice to depend on a compass to solve quests in Oblivion both can be counted as bad designs, not as something that I simply couldnt get into:D
 
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I thought it was just called rtwp not heard of phased before.
 
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Hmm. The Codex guys recommended that one to me. I thought the combat was OK, but having gone to college to study English and writing, I just could not get past the dialogue. It was awful, and I couldn't look past it to see the other good parts of the game. I'm jealous of those who can get past it. But in any case, since you've mentioned it and I also disliked it (for reasons different from yours) I will make that the #10 item on my list:

10. Prince of Qin.

Bad game, for me. YMMV.

I forgave Prince of Qin for the bad english and even looked at it as a comedy rather than a serious game ;) but I was wondering, did you ever play Seal of Evil? What did you think about that one. They improved the script in that one but not the terrble voice acting. One character was pretty good, but the rest were just horrible.
 
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Never heard the term 'phased' based combat before. I like it!

My understanding was that BG and the like were called turn based because of the internal counter it uses to determine when you can take another action, not just how fast can you click.

The blurring of the terms is probably why I ended up wasting my money on TOEE and other games like that! It just seems so unnatural to me have everybody walking around doing stuff, then when combat begins, basically the game pauses and and each character or enemy cycles through an action.

Funny thing though, my older brother, who stopped playing games around Ultima VI, recently decided to start playing again after I told him about Ultima C: Lazarus. He had a hard time with the combat though and asked me about true turn based games, like the old Ultima's were. So I sent him my copy of ToEE and he seems to be quite happy!

To each his (or her) own!
 
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I think that the main difference between the BG combat and the Goldbox games is the simultaneous resolution for all characters in BG (which IMHO removes one of the more "artificial" problems of many turn based implementations). If it wasnt for that feature you'd have exactly the same combat (save the more advanced animations) with the right pause triggers. IMHO this is a relatively good but not flawless solution to the problem of party based combat, and the main drawbacks are inherent in the ADD system rather than in the principles used... I like systems where the outcome depends on a combination of character attributes and my tactics:)
 
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5. There's a game where you start on board a ship. It's not morrowind but you play in first person, too, and you walk around in town, visiting the merchants and such. I can't remember the name of this game right now? Maybe you guys can help ?

Pirates of the Carribbean by Bethesda ?
 
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There are three games like that (Bethesda was publisher but not dev for the first two). A small Russian developer called Akella (that also made the Age of Sails games) is responsible.

Seadogs, Pirates of the Carribean, and Age of Pirates: Carribean Tales are the titles in chronological order. The first one is reasonably bug free, the second one apparently (havent played it myself) less so, and the last title is the buggiest game I've ever installed (barely ahead of unpatched Daggerfall) with further patching unlikely. I would have listed it as "truly bad" if I had thought of it as a RPG.

Which is a shame as it looks nice, ship controls are nice, and the atmosphere is good. But passive AI, questgivers that just stop giving quests, and crashes every 15 minutes (once you have a bigger ship) make it unplayable. Had it been patched properly it'd be a worthy successor to the first Pirates. But since the devs didnt fix it during the year it took to migrate from the Russian to the international market, and havent in the 18 months or so since the international release, I've given up...

EDIT: Not sure that's the game Aries meant though, as walking around aboard the ship is rather secondary outside of the swordfighting/boarding action.
 
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1. Descent to Undermountain - worst RPG ever...
2. Pool of Radiance II - booooring
3. Might & Magic IX - a sad, sad ending to a great series...
4. Ultima IX - another sad, sad ending to a great series...
5. Oblivion
6. Lands of Lore 2
7. Gorasul
8. Spelljammer
9. Dungeon Lords
10. Lionheart
 
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1) Pool of Radiance II – I was on the verge of quitting when I finally made it above ground. After that the game was ok, even fun at times. Then I got to the final battle and found it un-winnable for my party, leaving the months I had spent on the game unsatisfied and a waste. Designers take note, final battles should reward players, not frustrate them. I have not been interested in playing a RPG since playing PoR2.
2) Arena Scrolls – Every dungeon had the same map. Instant boredom.
3) Lands of Lore 2 – Graphics killed it for me. I loved the 1st one.
4) Diablo – I can see why people liked it, but boring and repetitive to me.
5) I can’t remember the name now, but the game came with a VHS tape and had an overhead view. I couldn’t figure out what I was supposed to do and eventually gave up. I may need to dig that out and give it a second chance.
6) Wizards and Warriors – I struggled through the first half only to find out there was a second half. I just didn’t have the fortitude to continue. I still have the saved game. Maybe I’ll finish it some day.
7) Fallout - Shoot, miss, get killed, reload, shoot, miss, get killed, reload - No Thanks! Plus when I wasn't reloading because my character died, I was reloading because the dog did. Not fun.


Several people have mentioned SpellJammer. I have to disagree. I love that game. I’ve played it several times and never had problems with bugs and the combat was a ton of fun (taking out groups of casters with Chain Lightning).

Also Prince of Qin . I would put that game in my top 3 RPGs of all time. For the first time in a game I got into crafting because of all the possible variations. PoQ made it fun to spin time chopping down trees to find out the properties of the resulting log. I enjoyed the world and was actually drawn into the story. The voice acting didn’t bother me as it reminded me of badly dubbed 70’s Kung Fu films and helped add to the atmosphere. I haven’t played Seal of Evil yet, but I believe the US version allows you to play with the original Chinese voices and subtitles which I look forward… It may even get me over my post PoR2 RPG Blues. Its sad Object Software seems to have stopped making single player games.
 
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I know Mike does a lot of reviews, and he'd be bashed to no end if he gave some of these games a bad score.

I have never shied away from scoring much lower - or higher - than 'the herd'. Look at the crap I took here over my Dark Messiah review! And I honestly have no problem scoring a quality product with some bad designs lower - e.g. Oblivion. My goal is to add context through the verbage.
 
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Pirates of the Carribbean by Bethesda ?

No, sadly :( no that isn't it.

The game is really looks nice and is your typical run-of-the mill high phantasy game. The buildings look like they could be placed in the cities in medieval Europe or maybe 18th Century middle Europe (or Germany of today).

You don't move much around on the ship. You just embark from the ship. The ship then sails away again. There's a big market where you talk to merchants and the like and buy stuff & things. I never quite got what I was supposed to do, though.

A comment also on the Prince of Qiun game:

I really liked the story in the game, didn't notive the (bad) voice acting. What I did notice was the horrible control sceme that when I clicked on my character(s), it took them forever to get where I wanted them to go. And as I said earlier, the game seems to be a full blown rpg game, which it is, but only in towns and such. In the wasteland it is more of an action rpg where everything just jumps at you when they have the chance.

Now, I don't mind combat that is hard, but I do think that sometimes developers need to decide whether they want to make a full blown rpg or an action rpg. Diablo's combat is hard too, but you know that eventually you will make it - especially since you can add skill levels to your skill tree when you level up. It didn't pretend to be a full blown rpg, though, when quests were given, as most quest given in Diablo just was an excuse to get out there and fight some monsters. In Prince of Quinn, it seems that you had the full blown rpg in the towns whereas you had more diabloplay style in the open areas between cities, even with the monsters respawning, I think. Anyway, I've found that the combat wasn't any fun, no matter if I retreated and fought the monsters one by one or took them all on at the same time.

I'm glad, however, that someone did like this game...
 
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No, sadly :( no that isn't it.

The game is really looks nice and is your typical run-of-the mill high phantasy game. The buildings look like they could be placed in the cities in medieval Europe or maybe 18th Century middle Europe (or Germany of today).

You don't move much around on the ship. You just embark from the ship. The ship then sails away again. There's a big market where you talk to merchants and the like and buy stuff & things. I never quite got what I was supposed to do, though.
Ah. You might be thinking of Soulbringer. It came with Planescape: Torment in the jewel box cheapo edition. You leave the ship, it's snowy, and you head to town and start buying and questing. If that's the game you're thinking of, then it makes sense, as I also never quite got what I was supposed to do in that game. I can't put it on my top 10 worst, though. I only played maybe 2 hours, gave up, played another 2 hours a few weeks later, gave up again. Too boring, but I didn't experience enough to give it a fair rating.

I forgave Prince of Qin for the bad english and even looked at it as a comedy rather than a serious game ;) but I was wondering, did you ever play Seal of Evil? What did you think about that one. They improved the script in that one but not the terrble voice acting. One character was pretty good, but the rest were just horrible.
I never played Seal of Evil. Was it otherwise as good as PoQ? Or did the bad characters you mentioned spoil it?
 
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