Blizzard - New Diablo Game Coming

I probably played Grim Dawn more than 99% of you guys here (about 500h).
And no, it is not a better game "by a fair margin" than Path of Exile.
It can be a better game to some people for some reasons (like not needing to be online) but objectively it is not. It is smaller (as in amount of content and things to do), less complex and has a worse engine.

Well I'm glad we have you here to inform us what games are objectively better than others.

and will be released on consoles 100%, so probably another crap like D3

JDR13 said:

Well I'm glad we have you here to inform us what games are objectively better than others.

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Someone needs to. Smart people would understand what I am talking about. All my argument are facts.
Unless you got a way to disprove them keep leaving these useless posts of yours

Of course there is no perfectly objective way to compare games. Even if you could agree on a set of objective measures (on which I would probably never agree with Archangel), it would again be subjective how you weight them for an overall comparison.

But that is a fairly moot point. If we can only discuss or compare games based on objective reasons, we might as well stop posting here.

Also, just so you know: I am always right. And because I am, the previous statement is clearly true. QED.

Archangel said:

Someone needs to. Smart people would understand what I am talking about. All my argument are facts.
Unless you got a way to disprove them keep leaving these useless posts of yours

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Smart people know you've been little more than a troll here.

JDR13 said:

Smart people know you've been little more than a troll here.

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So you still got no arguments and now you are doing personal attacks. Who is a troll here exactly?

Being called a creature with huge, physical attributes, as well as having great regenative abilities sounds more of a compliment than an insult to me.

Although I guess low intellect also goes along as part of the package. As well as a keen affinity for bridges.

Archangel said:

So you still got no arguments and now you are doing personal attacks. Who is a troll here exactly?

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Not a personal attack, just calling it as I see it.

Ironic you mention not having an argument though. I suppose you think constantly repeating "Diablo 3 sucks! PoE is better!" is going to win you something.

fadedc said:

Shrug, it sold 2.7 million in the first week and is one of the top selling games of all time. How you interpret that information is up to you. But I doubt Blizzard views it as a failure.

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sales number does not equate to quality, at best it equates to popularity, otherwise a game with 100M sales and every buyer unhappy with the game would be the best game ever.

D3 was such a disappointment that the first expansion only sold 1/3 of what the original game sold. That is a pretty abysmal number. So much so that the second planned expansion got scrapped. There is no way this outcome can reasonably be considered a success.

The game was a disappointment, even though financially successful. That being said, it is not a horrible game, it is mediocre. It is a great Gauntlet-like game, it just is a bad Diablo game - and the latter is where the disappointment comes from.

rpgw_mamba said:

sales number does not equate to quality, at best it equates to popularity, otherwise a game with 100M sales and every buyer unhappy with the game would be the best game ever.

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You're correct that sales don't equal quality, but you're fooling yourself if you think a game of objectively bad quality is going to sell 100M copies.

rpgw_mamba said:

D3 was such a disappointment that the first expansion only sold 1/3 of what the original game sold. That is a pretty abysmal number. So much so that the second planned expansion got scrapped. There is no way this outcome can reasonably be considered a success.

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Those numbers were only comparing the first week of sales not overall sales, and it was closer to 1/2 of what the base game sold not 1/3

Yeah, the expansion only sold close to 3 million copies in its first week. What a catastrophe!

JDR13 said:

Not a personal attack, just calling it as I see it.

Ironic you mention not having an argument though. I suppose you think constantly repeating "Diablo 3 sucks! PoE is better!" is going to win you something.

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Because objectively PoE is better game there. It has more content, better designed skill/character system, better and more interesting loot, more adult art style and other advantages.

D3 has a better engine (flashier), sold more and has kind of cool cutscenes. It is also easier for casual players to understand (which is not a real positive but helped with sold more part). D3 is also faster in earlier game but about same speed in mid and end game.

You don't seem to understand that things like art style or what someone considers "better" loot are completely subjective. I certainly didn't think PoE had more interesting loot than D3, nor did I find the art style to be superior.

The only thing you can objectively say about those two games is that D3 had higher production values. That doesn't mean it's a better game just that more money was obviously spent in creating it.

Archangel said:

Because objectively PoE is better game there. It has more content, better designed skill/character system, better and more interesting loot, more adult art style and other advantages.

D3 has a better engine (flashier), sold more and has kind of cool cutscenes. It is also easier for casual players to understand (which is not a real positive but helped with sold more part). D3 is also faster in earlier game but about same speed in mid and end game.

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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/objectively?s=t said:

objectively
adjective
being the object or goal of one's efforts or actions.
not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion.
intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book.
being the object of perception or thought; belonging to the object of thought rather than to the thinking subject (opposed to subjective).
of or relating to something that can be known, or to something that is an object or a part of an object; existing independent of thought or an observer as part of reality.

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Because objectively PoE is better game there. It has more content, better designed skill/character system, better and more interesting loot, more adult art style and other advantages.

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Don't know about more content, since I haven't played D3 since the expansion, but you're probably right on this point. "better designed skill/character system" This is an opinion, so it's subjective. "better and more interesting loot" Also an opinion. "more adult art style" I'll give you this one, since it does have a more mature look versus D3's stylized appearance.

D3 has a better engine (flashier), sold more and has kind of cool cutscenes. It is also easier for casual players to understand (which is not a real positive but helped with sold more part). D3 is also faster in earlier game but about same speed in mid and end game.

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I'm not knowledgeable about the engines used, so I can't comment on that. Saying that it sold more copies is kind of an odd thing to bring up when comparing a B2P game to a F2P one, but whatever. "kind of cool cutscenes" is an opinion. I agree that D3 is simpler to understand because players aren't as overwhelmed with them all at once as is the case in PoE. Haven't played the "end game" in D3 (I just finished the story and moved on) and my highest character in PoE was around 80 (I think), which is just the beginning of the end-game, so I can't really comment there either.

In the end, I think Cacheperl is right when they said:

Cacheperl said:

Of course there is no perfectly objective way to compare games. Even if you could agree on a set of objective measures (on which I would probably never agree with Archangel), it would again be subjective how you weight them for an overall comparison.

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Without an agreed upon set of objective measure by which games could be fairly judged, it's hard to say objectively just how much better or worse two similar games like this are.

JDR13 said:

I certainly didn't think PoE had more interesting loot than D3,

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Admittedly I haven't touched that steaming pile (diablo 3) since launch, but I'd take serious exception to this comment if it's still today anything like it was then.

Loot was an absolutely generic borefest! Everything amounted to slowly increasing amounts of +strength, dexterity, etc. Combined with cookie cutter skills, there was absolutely no imagination in game design. Perhaps that's changed now - I haven't been even mildly curious about D3 since then.

Drithius said:

Loot was an absolutely generic borefest! Everything amounted to slowly increasing amounts of +strength, dexterity, etc. Combined with cookie cutter skills, there was absolutely no imagination in game design. Perhaps that's changed now - I haven't been even mildly curious about D3 since then.

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That's how I feel about loot in pretty much all Diablo games and their clones. In fact, I'd even go a step further and say nearly all games that have lots of randomly generated loot are that way for me.

And yet, combined with the skill gem system, PoE is nothing like that There are dozens upon dozens of items that define builds. And countless more that increase player power in other ways without falling into some unimaginative cliche of +stats.

Drithius said:

Admittedly I haven't touched that steaming pile (diablo 3) since launch, but I'd take serious exception to this comment if it's still today anything like it was then.

Loot was an absolutely generic borefest! Everything amounted to slowly increasing amounts of +strength, dexterity, etc. Combined with cookie cutter skills, there was absolutely no imagination in game design. Perhaps that's changed now - I haven't been even mildly curious about D3 since then.

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Then you should probably just shut up. Go touch latest version and then you can talk more.

Expansion changed a lot of things and is completely descent and enjoyabe game, if not to your general liking.

Then you can just not be an obnoxious twit? I stated my disclaimer at the start and discussed D3's real problems at launch. If you're playing it in 2018 and you find it be a game you masturbate to and worth defending the honor of - good for you!

I'm just pointing out you're a big great hypocrite - Yeah, D3 had a massively terrible launch and the fiasco that was the RMAH, but yeah, it eventually got turned into a descent experience with an expansion and plenty of patches.

But you're singing praises of Path of Exile, a game that has had much more continued development since release, and barely resemles itself from launch. And how that is much better than a game you haven't played since release?