The Secret World

Yeah, I agree. I think EQ was utterly terrible and meaningless. Chargen and dev was non-existant, and it was devoid of solo play. To each their own. My favorite mmorpgs have been AO, AC, SB, and WoW, so, excluding wow, I like pretty crappy and unppular games, kind of like my taste in sp games I guess.

Everquest was fucking brilliant, mate. So far I havent played a better MMORPG to be honest. It went somewhat downhill after SOE acquired it, I admit that. But that was pretty much because they tried to make it more accessible and changed things that did not need any changing. It's always fun to hear that it had no solo play when there were actually so many people soloing. You could solo in Everquest, but contrary to many other MMORPGs you needed two hands and a brain to be successful. If I look at games like WoW or Lotro I'm not even sure if a mouse would be really necessary - to be honest I know someone who actually managed to make her way to 60 without a mouse and even got into a fairly successful raidgroup.... ... ...

But I guess we're simply having different kind of tasts. I like challenging MMORPGs like Everquest or Vanguard. And I don't mind if they are not overly solo player friendly. It's a MMO, if I want a solo-player friendly game I play a SP rpg... somehow that simply makes more sense to me. Solo-friendliness is an illusion anyway. Soloing usually gets you a high level, but nothing more. From some level on you just need a group or even a raid to progress.
 
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Lies. EQ was blank when I played. There was superficial and minimla choices to make in chargen (a couple stat points that didn't matter at all where you put them) and absolutely zero choice in chardev. Zero. That makes the game simple and retarded. Zero balancing within the class.

You could solo by grinding, grinding, grinding, non stop in the same spot, over and over. I soled to like 35 before I figured out how empty and hollow the world was and how there was nothing to break up the grinding, besides like grinding fishing. It is the most empty, choiceless, and bare game ever made. It included nothing that I like about the rpg genre at all. Not one important choice to make beyond if you wanted to waste more time playing a choiceless, 100% gear dependant game.

ANd vanguard is the same exact way, except you get a couple stat points when you level up. Woopity do. Its still 100% gear dependant and basically choice-less. Why bother? Why waste time playing a game and level up a character when at the end you have the same exact character as everyone else that chose the same class beyond gear, which is dictated by how much time you have to waste playing?

I play mmorpgs because you get more band for the buck than sp games, and some mmorpgs are a dream for min/maxers and munchkins. I also like to kill real people. I like to kill people a lot. No mob will ever provide as much of a challenge as a person. Using wow as an example, I consitently take down elites solo that everyone on thotbot says you can't. In EQ, it would 100% depend on your gear. In wow, it depends on strategy, tactics, smarts, and knowledge. I don't raid or do instances, so I have crap gear. I have a mix of greens/blues and one purple item (but, as a druid, some of the greens are better than any blues until you started getting the t5 sets, which I can't since I'll cut my penis off before I raid). My 2v2 arena ranking is 2032 this week and my arena partner is a retard, I have to carry him. There are a handful of players on the battlegroup that can beat me, and I very rarely lose a 1v1 fight (there are some people that report me for cheating since I have crap gear and do so well). I have a wierd build that everyone things is crap. But, the people that constantly run me over don't just have good gear, they are like me but with good gear. They play to figure it out and beat it. They live for a challenge. I play solo because its me vs. the game. The same way it is when I play a single player game. I live for the challenge. I live for that one difficult fight. I can beat the system. I'll figure out how it works. In a mmorpg its still me vs. the game, it just so happens that other people are included in the game.

I don't mind losing agianst the people that always beat me, because I know and they know how it would go if I did have the t5 gear, and without it, whenever I do happen to beat them on those rare occasions, it makes it that much better. In EQ the only that mattered was gear. thats it. There was no choices to build a different character. And strategy was next to non-existant. Its just a horrible, horrible game that was shallow and empty.
 
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Lies. EQ was blank when I played. There was superficial and minimla choices to make in chargen (a couple stat points that didn't matter at all where you put them) and absolutely zero choice in chardev. Zero. That makes the game simple and retarded. Zero balancing within the class.
I agree on the character generation. The couple of stat points really didn't matter much. And yup, there was really hardly any character development. But therefore you got something else - the player's skill did actually matter to an extent I have never seen in any other MMORPG. If you were a good bard or not did not depend on some points that you distributed in a certain way at level up, it depended on how good you were at playing your class.
Yup, there was zero class balancing. And why should there be any, after all there was no real PvP in EQ. Class balancing is really one of the things that is dragging down the MMO genre nowadays, because it makes classes uniform - the classes in EQ however were unique and ech had a certain role to fulfill in a group.

You could solo by grinding, grinding, grinding, non stop in the same spot, over and over. I soled to like 35 before I figured out how empty and hollow the world was and how there was nothing to break up the grinding, besides like grinding fishing. It is the most empty, choiceless, and bare game ever made. It included nothing that I like about the rpg genre at all. Not one important choice to make beyond if you wanted to waste more time playing a choiceless, 100% gear dependant game.
Then please enlighten me how exactely you leveled you AO character to 60... by socialising, exploring... ah wait somehow I have the feeling you did by a healthy mix of killing mobs somehwere, and running one mission after the other. Where exactely is the difference? And AO was also absolutely not gear dependant? Was that why you got yourself all these implants, and the best equipment possible so that you could beat a level 110 character at level 60?

ANd vanguard is the same exact way, except you get a couple stat points when you level up. Woopity do. Its still 100% gear dependant and basically choice-less. Why bother? Why waste time playing a game and level up a character when at the end you have the same exact character as everyone else that chose the same class beyond gear, which is dictated by how much time you have to waste playing?
As I said - in the end it always comes down to gear. Personally I never had a problem with that. AO was no exception. The difference between EQ and AO was simply that you actually had a choice what equipment to use, and that high end gear was interesting enough to get you going.

I play mmorpgs because you get more band for the buck than sp games, and some mmorpgs are a dream for min/maxers and munchkins. I also like to kill real people. I like to kill people a lot. No mob will ever provide as much of a challenge as a person. Using wow as an example, I consitently take down elites solo that everyone on thotbot says you can't. In EQ, it would 100% depend on your gear. In wow, it depends on strategy, tactics, smarts, and knowledge.
I'm not quite sure if you didn't play another game than I did. EQ depended very much on tactics - much more than WoW. Fear kiting, mass kiting, charm kiting and much more are things that EQ invented... you could do awsome things in EQ, but you actually had to know how to play your class, you could not just stand in front of a mob and push a few buttons.

I don't raid or do instances, so I have crap gear. I have a mix of greens/blues and one purple item (but, as a druid, some of the greens are better than any blues until you started getting the t5 sets, which I can't since I'll cut my penis off before I raid).
Why? Afraid to fuck up if more than one person depends on your abilities?

I don't mind losing agianst the people that always beat me, because I know and they know how it would go if I did have the t5 gear, and without it, whenever I do happen to beat them on those rare occasions, it makes it that much better.
I thought equipment doesn't matter in WoW - or does it now?

In EQ the only that mattered was gear. thats it. There was no choices to build a different character. And strategy was next to non-existant. Its just a horrible, horrible game that was shallow and empty.

Simply not true. I admit gear played an important part. But strategy was as much important as knowing your class. You could have the best equipment on Norrath as a bard, but if you didn't know how to keep two mobs mezzed while beating down the third one, or how to play two mobs against eachother without getting beaten up after your charm broke, then you just couldn't solo efficiently at high level.
And the game was far from shallow and empty. You could basically talk to every single NPC in the game, and most of them had something to say to you. There was a lot of information about the world to be found when talking to NPCs. Now look at AO - how many NPCs were available there to give you some info... like none?

I think you didn't like EQ because it wasn't a game for "min/maxers and munchkins" - but hey, EQ was a game for roleplayers. It was a game that unintentional and intentional empahsized typical P&P values like adventuring and socialising. It simply wasn't meant for solo play. And neither is Vanguard.
 
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This seems to be a new trend for advertising. The new Nine Inch Nails cd, Year Zero had a similar approach. On t-shirts at concerts there was a message somewhat hidden that said "I am trying to believe." When you googled it or typed in iamtryingtobelieve.com it takes you to a site about a new drug that makes you easier to control. If you emailed the webmaster you'd get a reply saying that he now thinks its a perfectly safe drug.

here is a link. http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/403-year-zero-project-the-way-a-viral-campaign-should-be-run
 
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I think you didn't like EQ because it wasn't a game for "min/maxers and munchkins" - but hey, EQ was a game for roleplayers. It was a game that unintentional and intentional empahsized typical P&P values like adventuring and socialising. It simply wasn't meant for solo play. And neither is Vanguard.

You are right for the most part, its a difference of opinion. All mmorpgs have a level of gear dependency. EQ had it 100% since they had no chargen or chardev. I like min/maxing, and role-playing in an mmorpg is impossible beyond the Elves of UO and other nonsense. You can't roleplay if there can be no drama, and there can be no drama if nothing is ever at risk. EQ and vanguard are games made for socializing, just not roleplaying (and no mmorpg is made for actual, possible roleplaying).

I'm sure, in groups, in dungeons, EQ had tactics. But playing a Barbarian, I didn't get to use them. Not to the extent I can in WoW. And I wouldnm't mind grouping in mmorpgs if people weren't retarded, but they are. I have little time to sit, focus and play, and the last thing I need is a bunch of retards gabbing it up when we need to be killing.
 
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You are right for the most part, its a difference of opinion. All mmorpgs have a level of gear dependency. EQ had it 100% since they had no chargen or chardev. I like min/maxing, and role-playing in an mmorpg is impossible beyond the Elves of UO and other nonsense. You can't roleplay if there can be no drama, and there can be no drama if nothing is ever at risk. EQ and vanguard are games made for socializing, just not roleplaying (and no mmorpg is made for actual, possible roleplaying).

I'm sure, in groups, in dungeons, EQ had tactics. But playing a Barbarian, I didn't get to use them. Not to the extent I can in WoW. And I wouldnm't mind grouping in mmorpgs if people weren't retarded, but they are. I have little time to sit, focus and play, and the last thing I need is a bunch of retards gabbing it up when we need to be killing.

I guess I have to agree on everything you just wrote... no kidding.

@Korplem
Thanks for the link, mate. I'm not a big NIN fan, but the idea was definetly nice.
 
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This seems to be a new trend for advertising. The new Nine Inch Nails cd, Year Zero had a similar approach. On t-shirts at concerts there was a message somewhat hidden that said "I am trying to believe." When you googled it or typed in iamtryingtobelieve.com it takes you to a site about a new drug that makes you easier to control. If you emailed the webmaster you'd get a reply saying that he now thinks its a perfectly safe drug.

here is a link. http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/403-year-zero-project-the-way-a-viral-campaign-should-be-run

I'm glad to see you post in a game thread. You and Barticus seem like you are too fancy for us dork crpg fans, only posting in the off-topic subjects. Just kidding of course. I didn't have any time to play games very often when i was in the army. Have you done your 6-months at sea yet?
 
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Well, I'm having a slow day at work (Shhh!) so I thought I'd try to derail a thread since off-topic is all I'm good at. I honestly don't get much time to play since "work" takes up so much time. For almost a month straight I was working 90 hours per week. The crazy thing is that there is never any real work for my division. All I do is busy-work. Anything that makes me look busy... like walking around with a pile of papers, asking people about a valve that I really don't care about... And, no, I'm not going out to sea anytime soon since my boat is in drydock until late next year at the earliest. Believe it or not, I'm going crazy on this island. I offered to go IA (Indiviual Augmentee), which is turning into a grunt and running around with the army in Afganistan/Iraq for a year. But, my chief hates me and wants to watch me go completely insane here.

Oops... /rant
 
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I very much like the first part... you know the busy work thing - sounds like I'd like it. The second part about your chief hating you sounds of course not quite as nice.
 
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It looks to have the same 'card-based' design that Guild Wars had, which I never really liked. Though if it lets you change your 'deck' at will, I might give it a try.
 
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It looks to have the same 'card-based' design that Guild Wars had, which I never really liked. Though if it lets you change your 'deck' at will, I might give it a try.
What do you mean with card-based design? Active abilities? I remember the combat system in Guild Wars being pretty standard. From earlier interviews they said you could have 7 active and 7 passive skills (don't know when you can change them). The skills should be obtainable from monsters etc. and they should be mixable for all kinds of stacked effects.
 
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What do you mean with card-based design? Active abilities? I remember the combat system in Guild Wars being pretty standard. From earlier interviews they said you could have 7 active and 7 passive skills (don't know when you can change them). The skills should be obtainable from monsters etc. and they should be mixable for all kinds of stacked effects.

That's what I called card-based design, it's like in card games, you build a 'deck' of abilities and you go adventure with it, which to me is totally immersion breaking, like ... "oh, I'll use my healing spell, but then that means I have to forget how to call my pet, because you know, my brain can only hold 8 things"
 
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My guess is that this will be f2p within a year or two of launch.
While funcom has some truly great artists and writers they also have completly inept management and with Ea in the mix this is almost certain to fail horribly.
As Age of conan proved it does not matter how many great ideas you have if you are unable to impliment them properly.
 
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It will be subscription-based and include an in-game store where you can buy items for real money. Ugh… is this the new standard for mmos? Are they anticipating failure already? :)

I had some hopes for this game but, alas seems heavily instanced with only some hub areas being persistent. I think this might be Funcoms last adventure into mmos.

Notes: Funcom's financial statement for aug.2011.
Funcom’s target is to sell more game clients of TSW during launch year than Age of Conan did
Funcom expects significantly better retention in TSW than in Age of Conan
  • Client sales 30 % higher than Age of Conan
Funcom expects significant in-game store sales in The Secret World
  • The Company has gained valuable insights of the model from Age of Conan, Anarchy Online and other online games
  • Market development: A large segment of players expect to be able to purchase vanity items and services in-game
  • In-game store sales/uptick amounting to
    35 % of subs. revenue
Haha, their worst-case scenario was named Conan-like scenario. I personally think they're wildly optimistic though in their projections. It goes head-on with SW:TOR after only 3-5 months after its release. Age of Conan for instance launched at the end of lifetime of a World of Warcraft expansion with no competition. Regardless, they project in-game sales and services to account for 35% of subscription money. I say, To Hell With It!
 
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it being heavily instanced is actually a high plus for me. Unfortunately, it coming around the time of TOR does weigh heavily on it, as I'm going to play TOR for a while (it's like playing 8 different KotoRs, plus extra stuff, so it should be a good 6 months at least to enjoy all the stories)
 
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As it runs on the Age of Conan engine im guessing heavily instanced in this case means a loading screen every time you enter a building/area/whatever and not just multiple instances of the various play areas to reduce lag and improve overall performance.
That coupled with an ingame store means the end of what little interest i had in this game.
@wolfig: Contrary to bEAware's hype toro is more like 3.5 kotor's as the class quests (the unique stuff) really only makes up about 20% of the leveling prosess.
 
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As it runs on the Age of Conan engine im guessing heavily instanced in this case means a loading screen every time you enter a building/area/whatever and not just multiple instances of the various play areas to reduce lag and improve overall performance.
That coupled with an ingame store means the end of what little interest i had in this game.
@wolfig: Contrary to bEAware's hype toro is more like 3.5 kotor's as the class quests (the unique stuff) really only makes up about 20% of the leveling prosess.

Well, but with all the different approaches you have, you can experience the same content with different results (light side vs. dark side). Besides, each class plays very different, so even if you still have to kill Lord Vayong, it's very different killing him as a jedi warrior than as a smuggler.
 
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Yes you could argue that the experience differs enough between the various classes to be something entirely new :) However since the mirrors play more or less identically (just different names/animations for the various abilitys) there are really only 4 classes in total so still far from 8x kotors worth of content.
Also light/dark choices on the whole mean very little outside your personal story as the only real consequence is what kind of gear you can wear (basically just affects looks) so its really just a cheap gimmic.
 
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