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June 10th, 2017, 21:40
Well, after a long hiatus I'm kind of back again.

Just to highlight to this thread :

"How many killings do we still have to do ?"

A snippet from the original posting :

My point is so far there is only essentially down to its root TWO things to do in the game. Yea, only TWO things to do down at the root. I am not talking about the variety of things to do (which is a handful) but the fundamental principles of game play here.

The TWO things to do is:
(1) KILL NPC (aka PvE)
(2) KILL other player (aka PvP)
Well … yes. He does have a point.

One of the reasons why I was absent here and why I don't play games that much anymore is just this : I'm inherently tired of killing NPCs, or animals, or whatever … "The thrill is gone", to quote one older blues song. And the taste is gone, too.

I assume that I'm just too old for playing "killing games" these days. I'll be actively looking out for games with no killing at all … And yes, I think I should replay "SIM's Medieval" again …

In one article I cannot find again (I think it was at PCGamesN, en English-language web site), people were actually looking forward to kill NPCs and get XP for that in the coming years (the theme was "the golden age of gaming", and the people in the comments section were believing that shooters etc. were the pinnacle of gaming - one even decided that Hitman was the pinnacle of current gaming). Maybe the discussion was held rather by shooter players, but to me … well, I grow deeply tired of having to kill ANYTHING.

And, besides, the concept of killing NPCs / Animals etc. for getting/receiving xp is "winning itself to death".
This is a term I had learned in an discussion about Capitalism, which is - according to that discussion "winning itself to death" as well.

This term means that a thing, a concept, is SO MUCH successful, that it just doesn't generate any alternative anymore. There just isn't. It's a one-way road (or world).

"Killing for getting xp" is so much successful that people have simple unlearned how to play nonviolent games, I dare to say. At least I believe so for certain game genres.

Tis is so deep that people just cannot imagine ANY OTHER approach anymore to get experience points.
Which is, I fear, the reason why everyone was looking away from SIM's Mediaval : It was TOO DIFFERENT from that overly successful concept.

Even I have no idea how experience points could get gained in an nonviolent way.
Okay, in some games the fulfilling of quests gives far more xp than killing, but killing just stays there.

As someone comments on the above linked SWTOR discussion :

It's kind of sad how people react to this request. Neither is it unplausable
nor is it unrealistic / undoable.
Besides, it's one of the reason why I lost interest in SWTTOR almost completely - even with that new story.

Edit : I bought Stardew Valley now. I should have done that so much earlier …
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Last edited by Alrik Fassbauer; June 10th, 2017 at 22:29.
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June 11th, 2017, 14:23
As an addition to the above I found this in the SWTOR forum :

Best tank in my guild is a stay at home mom whose three year old son likes to sit and watch his mom kill people in pvp. She says he gets mad and yells at the screen when somebody kills his mom. I have met several other really top notch female players in game.
Uh. Does this 3 year old kid even realize what's happening there on the screen ? Is this 3 yerar old kid being trained into "you can get any conflict solved with killing" ?
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June 11th, 2017, 14:27
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Uh. Does this 3 year old kid even realize what's happening there on the screen ? Is this 3 yerar old kid being trained into "you can get any conflict solved with killing" ?
Three year old kids already come programmed to solve any conflict with violence.
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June 11th, 2017, 14:42
There's plenty of games that don't involve killing, just not so many in the RPG genre, sadly. Adventure games, city building games, sims (train simulator, trucking, goat , etc)

Then there's Undertale, where you get the best possible ending by befriending rather than killing all the monsters.

As for MMOs, yeah most of those are killing-centric. Maybe the best you can do there is find one that has a robust crafting system and be a crafter only?
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June 12th, 2017, 02:39
The more I hear about Ultima, the more I need to play these games. Seems they had a lot in common with a MUD I used to game on back-in-the-day.
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June 12th, 2017, 02:53
@Alrik Have you played "Life is Strange", I havent played it but I have a sneaking suspicion you will like it.
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June 12th, 2017, 12:44
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Which is, I fear, the reason why everyone was looking away from SIM's Mediaval : It was TOO DIFFERENT from that overly successful concept.

I lost interest in SWTTOR almost completely - even with that new story.

Edit : I bought Stardew Valley now. I should have done that so much earlier …
1. No, Sims Medieval's problem was rince&repeat only a dozen of quests in a limited "playground". It cut away house (castle) build and never got a proper expansion but more of rince&repeat.
You want to play Sims3+World Adventures instead.

2. God exists!

3. You should. However, there is some killing in dungeons involved even there.

Originally Posted by Damian View Post
@Alrik Have you played "Life is Strange", I havent played it but I have a sneaking suspicion you will like it.
Everyone should play it not just Alrik. Finished it a few days ago but as usual, don't have time to sort my thoughts and write. Will try to post something (short though) later.
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June 12th, 2017, 21:29
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Everyone should play it not just Alrik. Finished it a few days ago but as usual, don't have time to sort my thoughts and write. Will try to post something (short though) later.
I can't play it. I tried to play adventure games before, but I can't seem to get into them.
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June 17th, 2017, 16:02
Originally Posted by Wisdom View Post
Three year old kids already come programmed to solve any conflict with violence.
Yes, I just read so today. The son of a woman suddenly began to act violently against his other elementary school pupils. Of course, the other children don't want to play with him anymore.
And then, his mother just disappeared with him. Nobody knows where to.

This is of course a positive reward spiral : People who get what they want through using violence of course don't see any reason to use any other way to get what they want.
And with "positive reward" I mean the molecular level of the brain.

Originally Posted by Damian View Post
@Alrik Have you played "Life is Strange", I havent played it but I have a sneaking suspicion you will like it.
Not so far, but it is on my mental list of "this could be interesting".

Originally Posted by Nephologist View Post
There's plenty of games that don't involve killing, just not so many in the RPG genre, sadly. Adventure games, city building games, sims (train simulator, trucking, goat , etc)

Then there's Undertale, where you get the best possible ending by befriending rather than killing all the monsters.

As for MMOs, yeah most of those are killing-centric. Maybe the best you can do there is find one that has a robust crafting system and be a crafter only?
I wish I could have been playing SWG, but I simply didn't have the money for it.
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June 17th, 2017, 16:31
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. I would be rather freaked out by a little kid that was already competent enough to avoid violence completely.

Hmmm, I wonder about No Man's Sky. There are plenty of critters intent on eating you but you *might* be able to just run from them. The game has changed quite a bit since I played so I don't know what the current state is.
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June 17th, 2017, 20:45
I think there's plenty of games you can by for non-violence.

Alrik, there's a game coming out called No Truce With The Furies that might tickle you're fancy, its supposed to be a combat-free RPG.

What I think is missing from the modern gaming market is good old fashioned light-hearted ultra-violence that doesn't try to be over-the-top memes or exaggerated violence. Things like Golden Axe and Streets of Rage. Violence that's so cartoon-like it doesn't really represent violence. A problem with ultra-realistic graphics is that violence then looks too real, even if its provided in a light hearted way.

There's virtually no way to make violence not seem like violence with a realism approach to art, but abstracting to a cartoon allows you to have a small plumber jump on a chicken and suddenly the violence doesn't seem like violence, even though its satisfying the same purpose.

Is chopping up a bunch of skeletons in an RPG really comparable to shooting people in a CoD-like, for example.
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June 18th, 2017, 20:15
Originally Posted by lackblogger View Post
What I think is missing from the modern gaming market is good old fashioned light-hearted ultra-violence that doesn't try to be over-the-top memes or exaggerated violence.
I got The Expendabros just for that from Steam as long as it was free. ( It could still be free - but I'm not sure on that.)
Edit : Their Steam page lists a game called "Not a hero" … Hm, I still prefer Duke Nukem 1 over that - because it has jump & run involved.


But … I still want violent-free games. Well, I can't have everything, can I ?
Something like … as I once said … Far Cry island jungle environment filled with riddles and an Monkey Island like game …


I just bought Undertale today, by the way.


Okay, I just shut up. I do know how few success I'll have with my plea for non-violent games.


By the way, this month I wrote a fantasy short story (in the end it was 17 DINA4 pages) about an undead skeleton woman wanting her life back, so to say … She had been summoned by one evil mage, and fled from him because he made a few mistakes in binding her to his soul … that's why I called the story "a failed summoning" (roughly translated).
In the end, he turned into a Lich, because he was seeking power - but a Goddess managed to turn things around and heal the situation …

As in all my stories, it's kind of a story of healing. The Healing theme is there in almost all of my stories (with a few exceptions).

Almost all of my stories are rather about describing the problems of people, and why and how things became what they became. I'm very interested in the psychology of the people in my stories.
A second point is, that my greatest wish is just to write something like a … story of a journey … Just describing landscape, people, customs … Almost like a very good travel brochure, only in the form of a story.
I had read one when I was a teenager, it was about Marrakesh, and I found great immersion in it, maybe that's why I just love describing things.
The bad side of that is that I must keep myself away from boring readers, like I was ultimatively bored by the "Willow" (the movie by George Lucas) novels by Chris Claremont. That was almost only description, very boring description, and very little actual action. That's the downfall I'm trying to avoid.
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Last edited by Alrik Fassbauer; June 18th, 2017 at 20:46.
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June 19th, 2017, 05:36
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Okay, I just shut up. I do know how few success I'll have with my plea for non-violent games.
I was playing Firewatch a couple of months ago and it seemed to be a pretty good adventure game but not quite an RPG. Reminds me to check if it ever got VR integration. I didn't finish it so maybe the event with the skinny dippers turns bad later after all.

RPG without without violence is damned hard to come by you pretty much have to go the adventure side of the spectum but looks like undertale fits the bill perfectly.
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June 19th, 2017, 18:23
I have Firewatch on my mental list, too.

well, right now I'm having fun with Stardew Valley - it's like a game I waited for a long, long, long time …
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