Skyrim Anticipating Skyrim

Toff · August 17, 2011

Been reading up about Skyrim since I haven't paid any attention at all to it.

I like pretty much everything I read but will the dungeons be more meaningful this time around? I saw that they had more dungeon designers which is great but the articles I read just didn't go more in depth.

By meaningful I mean there was quite a few times I was travelling cross country and saw a dungeon so I went in it. After hours exploring in there it became apparent that there really was no point to being there (beyond pure exploration). After doing this a few times I just stopped going in dungeons.

I'm hoping for something better this time around.

crpgnut · August 17, 2011

Toff, one of the changes is that quests will now point to dungeons you haven't visited. Let's say someone's grandma is kidnapped. The game will look at nearby dungeons and if there's one that you haven't visited recently, it will have the kidnappers populate that dungeon, thus giving you a reason to go there.

JDR13 · August 17, 2011

Toff said:
there was quite a few times I was travelling cross country and saw a dungeon so I went in it. After hours exploring in there it became apparent that there really was no point to being there

Are you talking about Oblivion? You found dungeons that took hours to explore? :thinking:

Thrasher · August 17, 2011

Maybe he had the "Lost Spires" mod installed.

crpgnut · August 17, 2011

I'd say Vilverin took me hours to explore, the first time. In fact several of the multi-level eyelid ruins took a long time. I generally played as a cautious alchemist. I'm there to get ingredients and avoid monsters, unless they were an ingredient

I'd use my trusty bow to soften 'em up and then magic for the finish. This was time consuming.

booboo · August 17, 2011

crpgnut said:
Toff, one of the changes is that quests will now point to dungeons you haven't visited. Let's say someone's grandma is kidnapped. The game will look at nearby dungeons and if there's one that you haven't visited recently, it will have the kidnappers populate that dungeon, thus giving you a reason to go there.

I'm not sure if I like that idea - so, you will (always?) conveniently chance upon the object/person/whatever you happen to be questing for if you wonder near some appropriate unvisited hidey-hole? Hopefully its not that accommodating. Many of the quests (e.g. morrowind) I found more immersive gave you pointers (landmarks etc) to guide you to some cave, castle etc. That's part of the quest. This sounds like InstaQuest - if I'm interpreting what you said above correctly. My solution for having a quest happen in the same cave system is to simply block of a section with a rockfall or some such, and only have that open up when you go back. You can also hand-design everything that way. This all sounds very procedural - which is usually not a good thing for immersion.

lostforever · August 17, 2011

I think crpgnut is talking about the new Radiant Story thing. If done right, it will be nice addition but I am not holding my breath.

Motoki · August 17, 2011

crpgnut said:
Not really; at least in my opinion. Bethesda games are not totally focused on "solving" the game. You can't beat the game. You can complete the main quest, but it's not really the point. Their games aren't like The Witcher 2, Planescape: Torment, etc. It isn't all about reading/playing through the book til you reach the epilogue. Instead, it's more like a diary. You do whatever motivates you on a particular day, week, month and then can do something totally different the next time. Much of the "writing" in the journal comes from player imagination. Bethesda just gives you a place where your journeys happen.

I will disagree with this. The main quest is the point or at least it should be a point.

Obviously, a large portion of this sort of game is open exploration and I certainly won't deny that, but the prior games had mysteries and plot lines going on. Why was Lysandus' ghost haunting Daggerfall? What is the mantella and why do so many factions want it so badly they are willing to scheme for it? What happens if you give it to faction x? What's going on with Red Mountain? What does Vivec want? What really happened to Neravar? What become of Almalexia and Soth Sil? etc etc.

There were plot lines and years later I still remember them. With Oblivion, I basically remember that Emperor Picard kicks it in the first few minutes, some crazy cult lead by some evil guy wants to destroy the world, a bunch of hell gates that lead to areas that all look the same keep opening and then Mehrunes Dagon came and stomped on a bunch of people, so uh, not quite epic.

I mean if they want to do a true open world without an over-arching main quest then fine, do it. But if you are going to do a main quest don't half ass it and also don't make it so blatantly in your face distracting from exploring like the Oblivion gates.

I think some big huge dramatic crisis is a bad main plot for an open exploration game anyhow. The more behind the scenes machinations with a looming threat on the horizon seems to work better to me. That's more how Morrowind and Daggerfall handled it and I think it worked for them.

Toff · August 17, 2011

That sounds like a step in the right direction crpgnut and yes it took me hours sometimes as I'm a slow adventurer.

crpgnut · August 18, 2011

Here's a recent description of Skyrim dungeon delving:

Dungeon Designs
You remember Oblivion's dungeons, right? Those underground stone labyrinths or dirt tunnels that you'd sometimes, maybe, feel tempted to go exploring on the off chance you might find some neat loot inside? They were fine for what they were, but they don't exactly cling to your memory as one of the better parts of the game. According to Bethesda's Pete Hines, the development staff has taken quite a different approach with Skyrim's dungeon designs. Literally. Whereas Oblivion's dungeons were largely drawn up by the staff's artists, now dungeons are in the hands of a team of full-time level designers. The aim is to make each dungeon stand out, serve a purpose, and feel like its own unique chunk of the world with its own backstory. Hopefully, that will mean more incentive to explore dungeons you'd otherwise pass by during your overland adventuring.

lostforever · August 18, 2011

Motoki said:
I will disagree with this. The main quest is the point or at least it should be a point.

Obviously, a large portion of this sort of game is open exploration and I certainly won't deny that, but the prior games had mysteries and plot lines going on. Why was Lysandus' ghost haunting Daggerfall? What is the mantella and why do so many factions want it so badly they are willing to scheme for it? What happens if you give it to faction x? What's going on with Red Mountain? What does Vivec want? What really happened to Neravar? What become of Almalexia and Soth Sil? etc etc.

There were plot lines and years later I still remember them. With Oblivion, I basically remember that Emperor Picard kicks it in the first few minutes, some crazy cult lead by some evil guy wants to destroy the world, a bunch of hell gates that lead to areas that all look the same keep opening and then Mehrunes Dagon came and stomped on a bunch of people, so uh, not quite epic.

I mean if they want to do a true open world without an over-arching main quest then fine, do it. But if you are going to do a main quest don't half ass it and also don't make it so blatantly in your face distracting from exploring like the Oblivion gates.

I think some big huge dramatic crisis is a bad main plot for an open exploration game anyhow. The more behind the scenes machinations with a looming threat on the horizon seems to work better to me. That's more how Morrowind and Daggerfall handled it and I think it worked for them.

Give this man an award! He explained why Morrowind was much better game than Oblivion by a mile.

I just hope Skyrim will have the same level of mysteries, plot lines Morrowind had. To me its those mysteries and inter connecting plot lines that motivated me to explore the world and improve my character. I hope that Gods of elder scrolls are listening to me and put some sense into the devs :lol:

crpgnut · August 18, 2011

I can't disagree with that, lost. Morrowind had all the factions and guilds and it seemed a little deeper than what we got with Oblivion. I wouldn't mind seeing more of that type of thing, but I honestly don't expect it. We really won't know until the game is released, because Bethesda doesn't release storyline spoilers. We know the guild names, but little else.

Motoki · August 18, 2011

My assumption seems to be that this game is about establishing a new royal line of succession. Without having played obviously, or knowing too much about it, the PC being the Dragon Born seems to imply to me that he or she will eventually become emperor/empress and start a new line.

Now how they will pull that off for future games when you can choose to be any race is beyond me. Maybe they will say a warp of the west made him all races and both genders at once.

crpgnut · August 18, 2011

Well, a guess would be that the next game will just mention that an heir of the Dragonborne has taken the throne, probably changing their name to Septim as part of the coronation process. I believe that we will be "one" of the last of the Dragon Born too, so it could be an offspring of one of the others that ends up taking the throne. Time will tell.

They could, of course, keep Tamriel as a bunch of provinces without a centralized government. This would actually open up for more variety in gameplay. You could have various guilds trying to sieze the throne, the old nobility being hunted down and exterminated, etc.

lostforever · August 18, 2011

crpgnut said:
I can't disagree with that, lost. Morrowind had all the factions and guilds and it seemed a little deeper than what we got with Oblivion. I wouldn't mind seeing more of that type of thing, but I honestly don't expect it. We really won't know until the game is released, because Bethesda doesn't release storyline spoilers. We know the guild names, but little else.

Up till recently, I did not think much of Skyrim however with the latest info and trailers about combat, mechanics etc seems to indicate they have sort of gone back to Morrowind days. I am hoping that they have also gone back to Morrowind days for story as well

Motoki said:
My assumption seems to be that this game is about establishing a new royal line of succession. Without having played obviously, or knowing too much about it, the PC being the Dragon Born seems to imply to me that he or she will eventually become emperor/empress and start a new line.
.

This is a very good theory. Skyrim is going to have marriage and the like. Initially I though its gimmick feature like in Fable but it may well be lot more than that and essential to the plot and later TES games provided your theory is correct

Alrik Fassbauer · August 19, 2011

Can someone translate these words ?

Photos were taken on the Games Com 2011 - higher resolutions are available, too.

Motoki · August 19, 2011

What is that supposed to be, Nordic runes? I don't think anyone's even cracked the Dwemer language yet. I know people were trying way back when.

crpgnut · August 19, 2011

Hmmm, these appear to be the same as what was written in the game informer article:

Dragonborn Dragonborn
By his honor is sworn
To keep evil forever at bay
And the fiercest foes rout
When they hear triumph’s shout
Dragonborn for your blessing we pray

And the scrolls have fortold
Of black wings in the cold
That when brothers wage war come unfurled
Alduin, bane of kings
Ancient shadow unbound
With a hunger to swallow the world

Take a look and see if you agree:

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_language

Alrik Fassbauer · August 19, 2011

Makes sense.
I have no idea, however, since I'm not at all used to TES dragons and their script (and frankly, I'm too exhausted still right now).

Grimlorn · August 20, 2011

Obviously, a large portion of this sort of game is open exploration and I certainly won't deny that, but the prior games had mysteries and plot lines going on. Why was Lysandus' ghost haunting Daggerfall? What is the mantella and why do so many factions want it so badly they are willing to scheme for it? What happens if you give it to faction x? What's going on with Red Mountain? What does Vivec want? What really happened to Neravar? What become of Almalexia and Soth Sil? etc etc.

Out of curiosity did a dev or writer ever mention what actually happened on Red Mountain with Nerevar. I recently played Morrowind and went through the main quest pretty thoroughly and that question is never answered. You basically have two stories. One from Vivec and one from some soldier in Nerevar's army. Although I think Vivec was telling the truth, he doesn't explain how Nerevar dies. But I think it's sort of implied that he died from his wounds fighting Dagoth Ur. Vivec also can't prove the other story is false or why it was told. He mentions not knowing why that other story was told but maintains that it was false. Always wondered what really happened there.

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