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September 18th, 2021, 00:36
Chaotic - random non sequiturs
Good - goodie two-shoes, reality can take a nap
Lawful - I AM THE LAW
Evil - die, cackle, die!

Not every time, certainly, but too often for my liking. It doesn't bother me much because I don't try to hew closely to my chosen alignment, but rather choose the option that feels in the moment most like what my character would do, which in practice means sometimes choosing good, somtimes chaotic, occassionally lawful, and sometimes the non alignment options (which come to think of it could be thought of as the neutral options, and I am supposedly neutral good, so fair play).
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September 18th, 2021, 00:48
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
To be fair, I played a CG character, and I found difficulty to find any alignment answers that suited my character's personality. She is a character I know very well because I've been playing her for years in tabletop RPGs, last adventure she went through was Descent into Avernus, which is, you could say, similar to Wrath of the Righteous in many ways, and she was an absolute blast to play in there. However, in Wrath of the Righteous I was forced to choose between options or behaviours that are not close to my character in any way.

I feel in fact Chaotic choices suffer the most in that they are too narrowly defined a lot of the time in describing some action or reaction that doesn't fit the situation. It's hard to portray every character in a few dialogue options, of course, but being a little more ambiguous in the way they present these options would have helped. At some point, either my character acted like a buffoon for no reason, or suddenly became an avatar of Law, with nothing in between other than a random (Evil) "I don't like your face. DIE!" filler that just made the feeling of lacking a real choice worse.

Not a big deal, really. My expectations about being able to really bring my nuanced character concepts to life in a scripted RPG are thin, but I did feel a little encased in roles or actions towards the chaotic axis that could have been better presented, imo.
Funny how we are the complete opposite in almost every way when it comes to this game. You seem to go out of your way lately to find issues with the game, Perhaps because you are still bitter over the ending, which makes sense as I would also be annoyed if my ending was messed up (and will be).

I find the chaotic options to be a perfect fit and I have been playing my character for a decade now so also tend to have very in-depth knowledge of them. I have also written a books worth of collected short stories on my two main characters I play across games.

I find the chaotic options to be very well suited to a chaotic personality myself and think that they opened up a lot of different dialogue choices. Considering the scope of the game, the possible races and classes and deities, I am pretty amazed at how many options they do have compared to most other games I have played.

However, I guess I am focused more on seeing the good in the game.

EDIT: Another possibility is that I don't really expect games like this to be a philosophical treatise on alignment. For me it is a fun high fantasy adventure and expect things to be somewhat straightforward in regards to options and choices. Versus maybe a more story driven game with deeper issues like Detroit Becomes Human.
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September 18th, 2021, 00:58
Just to be clear, I'm very satisfied with Azata hippies strike back ending the game provided me.

But the second playthrough will be Trickster.
Now I don't plan to go "Your face looks like arse, that is illegal, DIE!".
Well… Unless those are exactly trickster specific dialogue lines, but I doubt that.

However, if the end is the same as with Azata, then there will be absolutely no logic in it.
I mean, with Azata there is no way of pulling tricks on Areelu, dead or alive, regardless.
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September 18th, 2021, 01:00
Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
Funny how we are the complete opposite in almost every way when it comes to this game. You seem to go out of your way lately to find issues with the game, Perhaps because you are still bitter over the ending, which makes sense as I would also be annoyed if my ending was messed up (and will be).

I find the chaotic options to be a perfect fit and I have been playing my character for a decade now so also tend to have very in-depth knowledge of them. I have also written a books worth of collected short stories on my two main characters I play across games.

I find the chaotic options to be very well suited to a chaotic personality myself and think that they opened up a lot of different dialogue choices. Considering the scope of the game, the possible races and classes and deities, I am pretty amazed at how many options they do have compared to most other games I have played.

However, I guess I am focused more on seeing the good in the game.
I find interesting that you think I go out of my way to find issues with the game. Perhaps it is a matter of the expectation around here being that people will shut up and nod around o holy Owlcat, but with a release like this, some of us do like to voice the fact that we got charged ÂŁ40 for a beta. It begs for consideration whether this was a malicious move to cash in within a favourable marketing window (ie, get their money, and we'll fix it as we go.) or they were simply incompetent - topic for another thread.

To the question itself - yes the chaotic choices portray chaotic behaviours. Absurdly so, on occassion, and not the kind of chaotic my character might be. Not everyone who is a little deceitful, enjoys freedom and disagrees with order will suddenly start bouncing and making ape noises in front of the queen because, you know, it's chaotic.

That's how chaotic options are presented quite often in the game. And as I said, I can live with it. It's not tabletop, it's a scripted videogame, and it is to be expected that those predetermined choices are going to be perfectly aligned with every of the thousands of different character concepts out there. I still think it is done in a way at times asinine and mildly annoying.
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September 18th, 2021, 01:02
I can't speak about endings yet, as only ever made it to end of CH 4, but I can agree @joxer that if the endings are the same for different paths taken then that would be a bummer and somewhat kill the idea of multiple play throughs. Hopefully there is some logic to it Will find out eventually but I don't have the free time to play as much as the rest of you. Although getting closer to the end of ch3 and may be able to start ch 4 this weekend.
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September 18th, 2021, 01:07
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
Not everyone who is a little deceitful, enjoys freedom and disagrees with order will suddenly start bouncing and making ape noises in front of the queen because, you know, it's chaotic.
I would!
She stole my whole army (is that illegal? ).
When I came to confront her however, I mean to make ape noises in front of her just to show her what I think about her confiscating the army decision, she died in front of a dragon.
The game took away the most important life performace of my hero.
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September 18th, 2021, 02:04
I'm not sure this counts as a tip, but one of the things that became harder and harder while progressing through the game was navigating the inventory to find the precise item you needed, or the ability to check in stores if they have the one kind of item you need - for example, you need a scroll of restoration, but you need to browse through hundreds of scrolls reading one by one since they all start by "scroll of…" until you find it.

To that effect, my partner made a mod to help navigate the inventory in several ways:

- Added a search category for weight/gold ratio sorting
- Added a search bar to filter items by category and name

Here are some examples of the mods functionality:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen…7_22-50-54.gif
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen…17951/bar4.png

You can find and download the mods in Nexusmods:
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinder…hteous/mods/83 (Weight/value sorting)
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinder…teous/mods/115 (Inventory/vendor search box)

Tip: Download them and use them!

Also, using mods will disable Steam achievements. If you really wanna use the mods but also wanna keep getting achievements you can use the mod ToyBox by cabarius, which has an option to allow achievements while using mods. https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinder…es&file_id=462

If you use them, let me know if there are any bugs or functionality you'd like added and I'll pass it on to see what can be done about it. Enjoy!
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September 18th, 2021, 04:17
Those look useful @Nereida thanks for the links.

My apologies for being an ass earlier as it has been a rough work week and its hard to deal with negativity around something you really enjoy, even though intellectually I know it shouldn't matter. I do think it is more enjoyable to share a positive vibe with others who are enthused about a game, then a negative one.

However, that is on me and not you or any others here having valid criticisms of the game, even if I don't agree with all of them. Right now I am too wrapped up nightly game play to be objective so for now will try to stay away from certain threads and posts until I have finished the game.
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September 18th, 2021, 09:17
Oh my, you weren't an ass!

The fact that you think you were means you're a nice guy. I think you've been generally polite and you have passionate opinions, just as I do.

If anything, I am the ass for coming to an Owlcat-worshipping temple to say things nobody wants to hear about the game they're loving. I will do my best to tone that down.

For the record, I think WotR is a fantastic game, and I would rate it as 8/10, potential to be a little higher if it didn't suffer so heavily from a buggy release. As you can see in my household we have enjoyed the game and we're using some of our professional skills to support it and improve it, and that's not something we really bother to do with any random game.
Last edited by Nereida; September 18th, 2021 at 09:51.
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September 18th, 2021, 21:25
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
I'm not sure this counts as a tip, but one of the things that became harder and harder while progressing through the game was navigating the inventory to find the precise item you needed, or the ability to check in stores if they have the one kind of item you need - for example, you need a scroll of restoration, but you need to browse through hundreds of scrolls reading one by one since they all start by "scroll of…" until you find it.

To that effect, my partner made a mod to help navigate the inventory in several ways:

- Added a search category for weight/gold ratio sorting
- Added a search bar to filter items by category and name

Here are some examples of the mods functionality:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen…7_22-50-54.gif
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen…17951/bar4.png

You can find and download the mods in Nexusmods:
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinder…hteous/mods/83 (Weight/value sorting)
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinder…teous/mods/115 (Inventory/vendor search box)

Tip: Download them and use them!

If you use them, let me know if there are any bugs or functionality you'd like added and I'll pass it on to see what can be done about it. Enjoy!
The above mods have been updated with some extra functionality and ease of use, it should be even easier and more intuitive than it already was to use and navigate the search boxes.

In addition, we published a standalone mod that prevents achievement blocking so that way anyone who uses these mods, which do not give any advantage and simply improve quality of life, won't be missing out on those well-deserved achievements.

There was an alternative mod you could download from another modder, but it was pretty heavy, and loaded with tons of mods that actually could be used to cheat, so it made sense to make a simple, light-weight, standalone mod with that one functionality for people who only want that.

Please don't use the mod to cheat, it is meant to provide people with the ability to still receive the achievements they deserve while playing fair, only using quality of life mods, and not cheats!

You can download it here: https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinder…teous/mods/119

As before, if you find any bugs, or think of functionality or ease of use options that you would like added let me know or post it in Nexusmods and it will be looked at!

Enjoy!
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September 18th, 2021, 21:29
Bah cheat to your hearts content don't listen to her.
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September 18th, 2021, 21:36
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Bah cheat to your hearts content don't listen to her.
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September 19th, 2021, 00:58
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Illegal? In times of war taking a hit job is - illegal?
Where does it say so?
Hit jobs are always illegal, yes. Of course they are. Why wouldn't they be? Unless they're somehow sanctioned by the jurisdiction of the country of the target. In this case, that would be the Queen or some court in the capitol I assume. Other than that, it's very much illegal to try to kill the leader of the 5th Crusade.

If the Nazis hired someone to kill a British Admiral, what would the British do? Let it slide? He's just "doing a job"? Of course that hired killer would get shot on sight. Obviously. Either that or captured and interrogated.

It's one thing if you get hired to kill a dragon, but something entirely different if you get hired to kill a law abiding citizen. That's murder, plain and simple. Whether or not there's a war going on is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
Chaotic - random non sequiturs
Good - goodie two-shoes, reality can take a nap
Lawful - I AM THE LAW
Evil - die, cackle, die!

Not every time, certainly, but too often for my liking. It doesn't bother me much because I don't try to hew closely to my chosen alignment, but rather choose the option that feels in the moment most like what my character would do, which in practice means sometimes choosing good, somtimes chaotic, occassionally lawful, and sometimes the non alignment options (which come to think of it could be thought of as the neutral options, and I am supposedly neutral good, so fair play).
That is true, and it was the same in Kingmaker. It's a bit odd really, because Owlcat are clearly aware that there are differences between Paladins and Hellknights, as Regill mentions that Hellknights are lawful to their own laws, not the laws of any country.

The bottom line is: Hellknights and Paladins both follow their own laws, so they're both lawful, but the laws in question are very different, yet the game doesn't really treat it as such.
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September 19th, 2021, 02:34
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
If the Nazis hired someone to kill a British Admiral, what would the British do?
Brits would pay 25K pounds sterling to recruit the hitman because recruiting a trained hitman is always the best option whenever possible during war times and for mere 25K you can't train one yourself.
Even if you could, you can't do it fast enough.
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
The bottom line is: Hellknights and Paladins both follow their own laws, so they're both lawful, but the laws in question are very different, yet the game doesn't really treat it as such.
Hellknights and paladins are all the same trash (same shit different wrapping), and if it wasn't for the war where every recruit counts, I'd kill them all.
Luckily for them, you are not in my place. If you were, you'd kill them all regardless of the war.
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Last edited by joxer; September 19th, 2021 at 02:44.
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September 19th, 2021, 03:36
It don't want to mess around with mods in a game that is constantly updated, but I do spend quite a bit of time in my inventory looking for scrolls. I'm pretty bad at remembering what a lot of them are based on their teensy icons. Or what actually happens more often is I don't want to spend that time, so I simply don't use them as often as I should.
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September 19th, 2021, 06:05
Just in case a few people don't know, there are several sort options on the inventory windows by default. Sort by price highest to lowest, sort by weight, sort by date found, etc. There is a blank bar below the treasure icons and above the actual treasure. I didn't realize this at first.

P.S. This works with traders too, so you can sort by price descending and find the best loots.
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September 19th, 2021, 09:04
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Brits would pay 25K pounds sterling to recruit the hitman because recruiting a trained hitman is always the best option whenever possible during war times and for mere 25K you can't train one yourself.
Even if you could, you can't do it fast enough.
Perhaps, if he'd be willing to give up the information they wanted willingly. If not, they'd imprison and interrogate him. A single soldier, even a well trained one, is worth far less than information on the enemy.
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Hellknights and paladins are all the same trash (same shit different wrapping), and if it wasn't for the war where every recruit counts, I'd kill them all.
Luckily for them, you are not in my place. If you were, you'd kill them all regardless of the war.
Of course I wouldn't. They're fighting side by side in my army. Anyone following the law is perfectly safe.

Edit:
And now Camellia is dead too. Still in chapter 3, so I didn't get the big revelation first. Had to google that. Nice twist, though I'm definitely relying more on mercenaries in my next run, which means I'll have to grab 3-4 of them before they cost a fortune.
Last edited by Maylander; September 19th, 2021 at 09:40.
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September 19th, 2021, 12:50
Just as I wrote a few posts back - you'll end the game with only one companion given by the game because you took the path of no mercy for anyone who's different - and are forgetting you are an army leader. Supposed to be.

While I'm gonna say Camellia's story is worth seeing in full, in this case her being dead already in ch3 is not illogical.

Because you are an army leader waging war.
As I posted previously, in such circumstances every recruit counts, each have their role and more there are, greater chances to secure a victory.
In such times, Camellia:
Spoiler

If it isn't possible to cure the sort of addiction by any mythic path, IMO Cam doesn't fit any army leader regardless of alignment, unless this leader has INT 3 or less.
Eventually could be useful to Swarm, but the question is would Swarm even care.

I'm very sad to hear you will go Icewind Dale route where companions are robots without a story just because you're roleplaying a policeman, jury and judge in one person where laws are of your own imagination, not the game's written lawbooks (and there are none as you're not leading a lawyer company but an army).

You should feel heavy consequences of your choices and storyless mercs make those consequences nonexisting.

There should be a hint now, but instead here is a practical info for everyone who'll play IWD3.
When the worldmap opens, assuming you:
- sold every item/equipment except named weapons (+1, +2 vulgaris are also sold)
- bought only a small bag of holding and nothing else
Your wallet will weight cca 40K of coins.
You need 7.5K for initial reinforcements and if you want a general right from the start (it's not needed as you get enough mats from the first win, but still) you need to invest 2K. That leaves you cca 30K.

I don't know what's the price of each anonymous merc, but I suppose with 30K you may buy all 5.
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Last edited by joxer; September 19th, 2021 at 13:12.
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September 19th, 2021, 20:24
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Brits would pay 25K pounds sterling to recruit the hitman because recruiting a trained hitman is always the best option whenever possible during war times and for mere 25K you can't train one yourself.
Even if you could, you can't do it fast enough.
Doesn't tackle the question whether it is illegal or not.
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September 20th, 2021, 04:13
Are there any items I should not be selling ?
My inventory is full of random stuff. Impossible for me to know.
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