What is it about Zelda?

BoboTheMighty

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So review embargo has been lifted and (like expected) scores are off the chart...98, today is unheard of.
Didn't play enough ( Ocarina and part of Skyward Sword) to call myself an expert, but can't for the love of god see what is the appeal of it?
Story/characters/etc? From what I've seen it's childish( though fitting) and unexceptional even by even video game standards.
Combat can't also be a part of it...very simple mechanics with little development.
Puzzles are a nice addition, but absolutely pales in comparison to likes of Portal, Witness, etc.
Exploration...probably the best aspect as world is full of secrets, but nothing about it's world feels organic or genuinely lived in.
Anyone else puzzled by this series?
 
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I might be if I had played any of it at all ever.
 
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  • Only RPG on a console everyone has
  • Tried and true formula inspired by Ultima
  • Clever name inspired by the wife of F. Scott Fitzgerald
  • Name becomes so familiar it becomes a brand and gets marketed as a franchise
  • Product aimed at children age range 8-early teens

Would Pokemon Go become as big a hit without the name? Maybe.
Fallout 3 without the name Fallout - Probably not?
Mario Kart without Mario?
--
I despised the linearity of the game but I found it was about the best thing around to kill time with on the gameboy.
 
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Never understood the obsession behind playing a gay elf dressed in tight green clothing, either. Always thought it was pretentious nonsense. However, it might have to do with Zelda being the first video game where saving was possible on consoles if I'm not mistakem.
 
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So review embargo has been lifted and (like expected) scores are off the chart…98, today is unheard of.
Didn't play enough ( Ocarina and part of Skyward Sword) to call myself an expert, but can't for the love of god see what is the appeal of it?
Story/characters/etc? From what I've seen it's childish( though fitting) and unexceptional even by even video game standards.
Combat can't also be a part of it…very simple mechanics with little development.
Puzzles are a nice addition, but absolutely pales in comparison to likes of Portal, Witness, etc.
Exploration…probably the best aspect as world is full of secrets, but nothing about it's world feels organic or genuinely lived in.
Anyone else puzzled by this series?

Ocarina is all right, Skyward sword is terrible.

I cant comment on story yet, I havent really run across i yet.
Combat has been greatly improved. It forces you to switch weapons all the time because of weapons breaking all the time for varied combat.
Puzzles are good but simple so far, but at its best Zelda's puzzles are great, this time around there are multiple ways of solving puzzles.
Exploration in this one has been greatly improved to the point that it is far better than even Witcher 3. I would put it above Gothic 2 as well. As for being organic and lived in, its greatly improved too. Enemies at night sleep and when woken run to wards their weapons for example and hunt beasts for food.

It really does deserve the highest rated game on gamerankings.com.
 
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So review embargo has been lifted and (like expected) scores are off the chart…98, today is unheard of.
Didn't play enough ( Ocarina and part of Skyward Sword) to call myself an expert, but can't for the love of god see what is the appeal of it?
Story/characters/etc? From what I've seen it's childish( though fitting) and unexceptional even by even video game standards.
Combat can't also be a part of it…very simple mechanics with little development.
Puzzles are a nice addition, but absolutely pales in comparison to likes of Portal, Witness, etc.
Exploration…probably the best aspect as world is full of secrets, but nothing about it's world feels organic or genuinely lived in.
Anyone else puzzled by this series?

I think their versions of Hyrule feel lived in. Even as far back as the SNES A Link to the Past game, they had little towns and NPCs about. But I don't really think a game world needs to be hyper-realistic to be interesting. The game world in that game, the original Zelda, Ocarina of Time and so on is an interesting one to explore. Full of secrets as you say and lots of interesting locations and lore-filled, quirky areas and characters. And most of all, very strong ambiance.

The puzzles are often pretty good, sometimes challenging. Look at the Water Temple in Ocarina of Time, or some of the dungeons in Link to the Past, etc.. Considering Portal and games like that are 100% about the puzzles, it's not really a great comparison since Zelda games are a sum of the total parts and don't just focus on that one element. But even as a kid playing these games over the years there were always brain-teasing puzzles, secrets and things to discover.

The music is always brilliant and beautiful, magical, even. The game is humorous and light-hearted, "childish" in a sort of innocent way you could say, but also has some darkness and weird aspects as well (check out some of the Majora's Mask elements, etc..) The first dungeon in Link to the Past, for example, your uncle got ran through by an enemy and presumably died on the spot, etc.. Combat generally was a challenge in games past as well, where you had to use a certain item to exploit a weakness of an enemy, or time something just right. Most of the bosses in the Zelda games require careful movement, proper item use and timing. And so on.

It doesn't hurt that the franchise has been around forever and very successful at every turn. I was very young playing the original Zelda on NES and even then it was just awe-inspiring at the time. Since those were the days before internet we all would chat about the game at school, on the school bus, etc.. We'd have to ask each other how to do certain things in the game, where certain secrets were and so on, and it added greatly to the mystique. The game has mostly been popular with every iteration since then, has an (obviously) very large fan base and gets probably the largest budget from Nintendo for their development. These things all add up to make it what it is today.

It's pretty staggering when you think about how long they've been developing Zelda games and had mostly a lot of success with every one. That said, I'm probably not going to jump into this game anytime soon but being a new open-world-style Zelda I can see why people are going nuts over it.
 
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The greatest mistake coming to Breath of Fire is the OP one: watching.
The ratings are doomed to go down for this reason: early reviews are from people who enjoyed the game without knowing anything about it, they had to find for themselves, and that is the core of the game.

BoF is a Zelda game, they successfully ported the formula to an open world. Whereas other open worlds are usually pieced together through a story angle, this one is gameplay based. The level of manipulation of the environment is high (there are even interactions in this one)
Players with a disregard for gameplay will see the world as empty, gamers will see it full of opportunities to try this or that.
This is the way the world gets lived in. The world is not spoon fed through a story. Stories are a support to the sense of venturing. There is not even a main story. There is a story that officially serves as giving a limit for players who want to beat games. Other than that, there are different story lines (in addition to side story lines) to support the adventure.

It could be a 50 hour gameas it can be a 150 hour game depending on the player making the world their own.

It is going to be very hard for Nintendo to top that Zelda effort in the future.




Never understood the obsession behind playing a gay elf dressed in tight green clothing, either.

playing a gay blond blue eyed elf dressed in tight green clothing, either.
 
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I don't care if the main character is a bisexual giraffe, if the game is good I'll play it. :)
 
And I don't care if the main character this and that, if a game cannot work on PC it can rot for all I care.
 
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Are PCs not supposed to emulate everything? In the meantime, there are going to be players, their eyes full with Links, their heart full of impatience of jumping once again in this Hyrule world, wishing they would go at home to enjoy those 150~200 hours of gaming.
 
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You can try to emulate Nintendo. But you should also expect cops at your frontdoor.
 
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I watched a few previews and really not seeing it. The world feels empty and cartoonish, and I'm not talking about art.
Wilderness, wilderness, wilderness, giant ruin, crates littered around for "stealth"...there is no believable, logical transition.
Interaction with objects is great, but can feel cheap/"gimmicky" in encounters...monsters surrounded with exploding barrels for no reason or a giant boulder that "happens" to be placed just to roll it over their camp.
For some reason if you run out of stamina while swimming: Instant death.
Little ambience, no music in background for most part.
Obvious open world pacing issue....blah, blah, blah, the world is in peril, you must hurry before it's too late, but off you go adventuring, collect treasures and solve puzzles.
Very poor UI design...Skyrim's or Witcher's ( at release) seem like work of art in comparison.
Basic light/heavy attack combos, meh variety of enemies....overall serviceable, but unexceptional combat.
Very obvious performance issues, with occasional freezing and frequent fps drops.

Overall, seems like something people judge more as a children's fairy tale with flaws overlooked on account of it's "innocent charm".
 
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I watched a few previews and really not seeing it. The world feels empty and cartoonish, and I'm not talking about art.
Wilderness, wilderness, wilderness, giant ruin, crates littered around for "stealth"…there is no believable, logical transition.

Stealth doesnt work around crates AFAIK, it maily works around the sound you make due to how heavy your armor is and time of day(night is more effective).


Interaction with objects is great, but can feel cheap/"gimmicky" in encounters…monsters surrounded with exploding barrels for no reason or a giant boulder that "happens" to be placed just to roll it over their camp.

That one boulder is part of the intro. As for exploding arrows, enemies throw then at you and explode them on you.


For some reason if you run out of stamina while swimming: Instant death.
Little ambience, no music in background for most part.

Er, the ambience is exceptional BECAUSE of the lack of music, the music in the game is used sparingly.


Obvious open world pacing issue….blah, blah, blah, the world is in peril, you must hurry before it's too late, but off you go adventuring, collect treasures and solve puzzles.

Yes, there is no real sense of urgency.


Very poor UI design…Skyrim's or Witcher's ( at release) seem like work of art in comparison.

? I dont know what you mean.



Basic light/heavy attack combos, meh variety of enemies….overall serviceable, but unexceptional combat.

It depends on the weapons you use. If you use the boko club that is the case, its vastly different when using he giant club.


Very obvious performance issues, with occasional freezing and frequent fps drops.

You watching the Wii U version? I've had no such experience.


Overall, seems like something people judge more as a children's fairy tale with flaws overlooked on account of it's "innocent charm".

This one is not as innocent as the other Zeldas.
The starts off 100 years in the future with most of the people killed and you resurrected
 
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Remember when DA:I first appeared all "pro" sites gave it 10/10 and 100% and it gathered so many GOTY awards? Just a few days later, suddenly, everyone was writing articles "leave Hinterlands", I mean, wait, if a game is perfect how come players need suggestions on what to do?

Fast forward to this day:
http://kotaku.com/if-you-re-playing-zelda-breath-of-the-wild-turn-off-t-1792734400

I have no doubt the new Zelda game is good. But is it 100% material as (plenty of) reviewers said? Not very likely.
 
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Remember when DA:I first appeared all "pro" sites gave it 10/10 and 100% and it gathered so many GOTY awards? Just a few days later, suddenly, everyone was writing articles "leave Hinterlands", I mean, wait, if a game is perfect how come players need suggestions on what to do?

Fast forward to this day:
http://kotaku.com/if-you-re-playing-zelda-breath-of-the-wild-turn-off-t-1792734400

I have no doubt the new Zelda game is good. But is it 100% material as (plenty of) reviewers said? Not very likely.

Eh, that article is based purely on preference. I cant live without the hud and mini map.
 
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Stealth doesnt work around crates AFAIK, it maily works around the sound you make due to how heavy your armor is and time of day(night is more effective).

Point was not about stealth, but context behind objects and locations in the world. It feels like it combines weakest aspects of Skyrim/Witcher worlds with none of their strengths.

Er, the ambience is exceptional BECAUSE of the lack of music, the music in the game is used sparingly.

That works in a game that tries to achieve sense of isolation, but Imo, It does it poorly. Plus background music can be non invasive for reinforcing ambiance.

Yes, there is no real sense of urgency.

Err, it seems exactly the opposite. It would work far better if player would discover on it's own driving focus of the plot.

It depends on the weapons you use. If you use the boko club that is the case, its vastly different when using he giant club.

Weapons introduce more variety, but compared to other similar games, it is woefully simple and undeveloped. ( Take a look at recent Nier Automata for example)

This one is not as innocent as the other Zeldas.

Was not referring literally, more about invoking (art) style of the game.

To clarify I'm not trying to bash the game, I can see why plenty of people love it...it's more puzzling to see it's stellar reception by critics as plenty modern games are far more complex and better in several aspects of game design.
 
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For some reason if you run out of stamina while swimming: Instant death.
The reason is obvious: tension. Same as for climbing, one air wing use only etc
The world is accessible through stamina. Crossings might be achieved on shorter or longer paths. There are paths for different playstyles, including players who makes the most of what they have at the moment. The one pixel, one frame close mechanics.
Obvious open world pacing issue….blah, blah, blah, the world is in peril, you must hurry before it's too late, but off you go adventuring, collect treasures and solve puzzles.
No. Story lines exist as a supporting element. It is not story driven.
The pace is set by the player. As soon as the zone used as a tutorial (the plateau showcased as a demo) is over, the player is informed that she can head immediately for the final boss. The final boss can be taken on at any time from that point. The player is also informed that he'd better prepare well because it is going to be hard.
It is up to the player to determine when the right moment is.

As already mentioned, this story line exists to give a finishing line: players who beat that boss can tell they've finished the game.
This can happen after 50 or 60 hours in in which case the player is left with 60 hours more of content, including other main story lines.
 
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wait, why is this topic in Non-RPG's? Is OP trying to say something?
 
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The reason is obvious: tension. Same as for climbing, one air wing use only etc
The world is accessible through stamina. Crossings might be achieved on shorter or longer paths. There are paths for different playstyles, including players who makes the most of what they have at the moment. The one pixel, one frame close mechanics.

People don't drown immediately when they run out of energy while swimming. Open world games need to have more organic gameplay mechanics to support player immersion( one of main goals behind the genre).

No. Story lines exist as a supporting element. It is not story driven.
The pace is set by the player. As soon as the zone used as a tutorial (the plateau showcased as a demo) is over, the player is informed that she can head immediately for the final boss. The final boss can be taken on at any time from that point. The player is also informed that he'd better prepare well because it is going to be hard.
It is up to the player to determine when the right moment is.

As already mentioned, this story line exists to give a finishing line: players who beat that boss can tell they've finished the game.
This can happen after 50 or 60 hours in in which case the player is left with 60 hours more of content, including other main story lines.

By that reasoning, non well paced ( except for MGS IV) games do not exist, as long as player has any influence over it and is willing to suspend his disbelief to give player character any freedom.
Main Story in Open world games should more slowly build their tempo, focus on investigation and player driven discovery, and use lore/side quests to reinforce it.
 
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The docked mode drops to 20 fps while the handheld mode stays at 30fps.




Point was not about stealth, but context behind objects and locations in the world. It feels like it combines weakest aspects of Skyrim/Witcher worlds with none of their strengths.

I am not getting the complaint. Is it so hard to believe that isolated camps would have boxes of supplies?



That works in a game that tries to achieve sense of isolation, but Imo, It does it poorly. Plus background music can be non invasive for reinforcing ambiance.

It does try to achieve isolation as its main aim, it tries to evoke the feeling of being in raw nature. A feeling lost when you play music. Like if you go for a walk in the park, you lose the sounds of rustling leaves, raw animal and bird sounds, the sound of water etc. when you listen to music



Err, it seems exactly the opposite. It would work far better if player would discover on it's own driving focus of the plot.

No thats not true. I have not felt any sense of urgency playing the game at all. ie there is no feeling that you have to move fast at all.



Weapons introduce more variety, but compared to other similar games, it is woefully simple and undeveloped. ( Take a look at recent Nier Automata for example)

Neir Automata makes you only use one weapon AFAIK and most people are going to be using 2 different combos all the time, I dont get the sense the game forces you to change your style of play. Witcher 3 doesnt even try to make you change weapons at all, only once or twice in the game had i had to change the weapon i was currently using. Zelda forces you to change weapons all the time because the best weapons are finite and all have relatively low durability and they all seem to play different unless you pick up the exact same weapon. It keeps the combat fresh, while nothing fancy like Neir Automata, when you actually play the game its far more entertaining unless you enjoy watching flashy combat animations over and over again.



Was not referring literally, more about invoking (art) style of the game.

The art style is refreshing. They tried to emulate "en plein air" as their art style and do it well. Although it is clear it was used to hide the limitations of the hardware. Not every game has to have that dark, ugly, dirty look to be enticing to play.


To clarify I'm not trying to bash the game, I can see why plenty of people love it…it's more puzzling to see it's stellar reception by critics as plenty modern games are far more complex and better in several aspects of game design.

Far more complex? As i get further and further into the game, this is the most complex game i have played bar none, unless we are talking numbers and statistics and for aspects of game design, I think that's debateable, overall i think this game has the best game design of nay game i have played.
 
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