Coronavirus (No Politics)

wolfgrimdark said:

Wearing a mask isn't that big of a deal when out in public. I am mostly vegetarian (would be totally except for my dogs who get turkey, chicken, or tuna along with eggs and some dairy for protein).

I find having to take a temperature reading every day before, or at, work to be far more annoying than a mask.

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We have had IR cameras at the entry since late March which makes things much better (still imperfect as outside heat and sun have an impact on absorbed heat). Started with the doctor office forehead swipe things ... have one at home and we were allowed to pre-screen at home while they got the IR system installed.

Temperature reading is utterly stupid as it won't show changes in all cases.

About the horrors bbc wrote about, I did read before that autopsies on some deceased people, death caused by covid (along other stuff), shown such internal damage it'd be impossible to tell the mass they found was lungs if they didn't know it was.

While we know a lot more than we did a few months ago about it, there are still many unknowns. This mysterious virus is unlike anything the world had to deal with so far.
Honestly, I'm hoping it'll mutate soon towards something less dangerous and then disappear like SARS. Sure it does spare youngsters, but who'll care about them if many parents and grandparents die?

The worst thing in this story is if we do go a total lockdown worldwide, there is no guarantee once there is no new case of infection the virus won't be lurking in someone's freezer, waiting to reappear when the owner scrubs it.
Sadly the science is still helpless against any random RNA virus.

joxer said:

Temperature reading is utterly stupid as it won't show changes in all cases.

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What drives me nuts is that, assuming the temp is caused by COVID, it doesn't mean that the employee should go home. It means that employee has been spreading the virus for some days so EVERYONE should go home and self isolate until they can get tested!

Traces of COVID-19 were supposedly discovered in Madrid sewage from March 2019:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...wage-sample-spanish-study-shows-idUSKBN23X2HQ

My thinking is that has to be a mistake. Perhaps a mix-up or contamination?

SE Europe (or Balkans if you will) update. First the Djokovich debacle and now infections on the rise immediately after the parliamentary elections in Serbia (who would have guessed...). A couple of ministers got it, probably more seeing all the hugging and kissing at the afterparty. No doubt the plotting of foreign agents to undermine the unexpected landslide win (not)...

joxer said:

Temperature reading is utterly stupid as it won't show changes in all cases.

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Um, so 'joker logic' is 'either 100% effective or don't do it? Now THAT is 'utterly stupid'!

Here is a correct statement:

Zloth said:

What drives me nuts is that, assuming the temp is caused by COVID, it doesn't mean that the employee should go home. It means that employee has been spreading the virus for some days so EVERYONE should go home and self isolate until they can get tested!

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Exactly ...

Reality is that there is not a SINGLE prophylactic measure to ensure safety short or long term. There are tons of ways to compromise safety as we are seeing in certain US states [no politics self-edit], but ultimately safety comes down to observing a set of behaviors that seeks to ensure the safety of others (a very un-American thing).

My company has what they call 'Responsible Corning' where they have a dozen personal measures, restrictions on meeting rooms, greatly reduced staffing levels on-site and many more things all in place with the goal of minimizing risk. Some sites are doing very well and others have issues - all based on proximity to 'hot spots'.

It is interesting how the 'return to work' is happening in different buildings - in the headquarters and main engineering buildings, people have realized they don't NEED to be there, so they don't. A friend who had to go there last week said the guard told him there were TWO other people in the building - and both worked in the small lab and needed to be on-site. The building houses 800 people (I used to have an office there before moving to R&D).

txa1265 said:

Um, so 'joker logic' is 'either 100% effective or don't do it?

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Exactly.
Use actual tests instead of charlatans' measures.
The actual test can be cheap - make people walk through a corridor with rotten eggs smell. Those who walk through it without complaining - are all infected.

joxer said:

Exactly.
Use actual tests instead of charlatans' measures.
The actual test can be cheap - make people walk throug a corridor with rotten eggs smell. Those who walk through it are infected.

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Nope.

A decreased sense of smell or disturbances in taste may occur.

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Based on evidence being collected you would still have a <50% hit rate.

Again - I think a way of doing a routine 'smell check' would be a great addition to a battery of checks ... but no single one is conclusive or absolute.

No nope but yea.
The may thing was an ancient suspicion. So far I haven't heard about any case where the virus didn't took the sense of smell away for at least a day.

Get a well trained dog perhaps: https://ronproject.com/dogs-tested-for-detecting-covid-19/

joxer said:

No nope but yea.
The may thing was an ancient suspicion. So far I haven't heard about any case where the virus didn't took the sense of smell away for at least a day.

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However, smell loss is an important component of many conditions, from a simple cold, to a sinus infection, to early stage Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s diseases, or simply aging. Hyposmia and anosmia are quite common, 12.4 percent of Americans over the age of 40 have some hyposmia and 3 percent of Americans are anosmic across a wide range of ages. While anosmia might be a helpful symptom to suspect infection in the midst of a pandemic, and indicate a test, it’s not by itself diagnostic of COVID-19.

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So again - NO, loss of smell is NOT a test in itself ... but rather another potential methodology to suggest health abnormalities that should result in isolation and testing.

txa1265 said:

It is interesting how the 'return to work' is happening in different buildings - in the headquarters and main engineering buildings, people have realized they don't NEED to be there, so they don't. A friend who had to go there last week said the guard told him there were TWO other people in the building - and both worked in the small lab and needed to be on-site. The building houses 800 people (I used to have an office there before moving to R&D).

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Yeah, that's how it's going where I work, too. I think somebody takes delivery of laptops, gets them imaged to our standards, then ships them out. There might be an accounting person that has to deal with physical receipts. Oh, and the custodian, who's disinfecting everything over and over. All conference rooms are closed. And we're expecting to stay like this for many months to come.

…but ultimately safety comes down to observing a set of behaviors that seeks to ensure the safety of others (a very un-American thing).

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Oh for… the entire "greatest generation" just asked me to hold all their beers!

Zloth said:

Oh for… the entire "greatest generation" just asked me to hold all their beers!

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Not sure what you mean …

But assuming you are saying that the so-called greatest generation disproves selfishness and lack of empathy as American traits ... let's start by remembering most of them are dead because this was 75 years ago. Also ... the myth of the 'greatest generation' is just that - they were PEOPLE. And a great many of the whites were racists and sexist and went on to form the core of opposition to rights for blacks and women ... and so much more. It is like the myth that the 50s was some 'golden age'.

Mid July should be an interesting time in the US. With much of the south with its head in the proverbial sand, July 4th infections are likely to be wildfire.

joxer said:

No nope but yea.
The may thing was an ancient suspicion. So far I haven't heard about any case where the virus didn't took the sense of smell away for at least a day.

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Even if that was true (it's not), the fact that it only affects smell for a short period should already tell you it's not a foolproof test…

And it's fairly hard to measure as well. Compared to increased body temperature. And worryingly easy to avoid.

txa1265 said:

Not sure what you mean …

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You were talking about sacrifice. World War 2 required a HUGE amount of sacrifice and Americans gave it. Americans will definitely sacrifice when... umm... something best covered in the other forum's topic happens.

This month's Scientific American featured the coronavirus:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-visual-guide-to-the-sars-cov-2-coronavirus/

What I found interesting is the section at the end that describes how it is structured. It has close to the longest RNA strand it's possible for a virus to hold, and it has built-in error checking code at the end. I get the feeling that this virus has been around for a long, long time because it is so devilishly well evolved.

Zloth said:

You were talking about sacrifice. World War 2 required a HUGE amount of sacrifice and Americans gave it. Americans will definitely sacrifice when… umm… something best covered in the other forum's topic happens.

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Here is the most important part:

Zloth said:

World War 2 required a HUGE amount of sacrifice

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And a correction:

Americans were legally obligated to give it.

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World War I saw American citizens asked to make sacrifices but were met by price gouging and loads of war profiteering. So for WWII, FDR wanted to institute price controls, wage controls, rent controls, and generally make EVERYONE (including businesses) feel the pinch of sacrifice. There was a massive amount of protest from right wingers who tried to protest in favor of profiteering on ‘but mah frEEdum’ grounds but got nowhere. There were loads of people who worked around the system ... and as usual those who had the most sacrificed the least.

Carrying forward to the current situations you can see WHY New York after a massive initial outbreak based on being a global center, has been able to greatly contain the pandemic through requirements and a general sense of community sacrifice ... while states like Florida, Texas and Arizona famous for their spirit of “gimme mine, IDGAF about you” have seen their cases spiral out of control.

As if Covid-19 wasn't enough of a problem for the world.

The new flu strain that has been identified in China is similar to 2009 swine flu, but with some new changes.

So far, it hasn't posed a big threat, but Prof Kin-Chow Chang and colleagues who have been studying it, say it is one to keep an eye on.

The virus, which the researchers call G4 EA H1N1, can grow and multiply in the cells that line the human airways.

They found evidence of recent infection starting in people who worked in abattoirs and the swine industry in China.

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Link - https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53218704

Couchpotato said:

Well China's at it again.

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Racist.