Top 10 CRPGs of all time

Pongo said:

I agree with the comments on Throne of Bhaal - you definitely did start to feel overpowered (my kensai dual wielding Crom Faer and Celestial Fury was a monster ), it was mainly about the combat, and loot eventually lost its meaning. Having said that, it still had some good moments, especially first time round. Before I figured out the correct tactics, the dark elf with her statues and the dragon that turns invisible to heal itself were real challenges that I enjoyed.

But yeah the best bits of Baldur's Gate II for me were definitely the opening sections in Athkatla where the game just throws quests at you… and they're all interesting and different, with great twists and unexpected outcomes, and you're still building up your party to the point where a +3 sword is pretty exciting.

I should do my own list at some point. Baldur's Gate II would definitely be top of the list, but I start to struggle a bit lower down. I'm probably thinking about it too much

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Yep, loot inflation was a real problem. As far as making a list goes just write down what you enjoyed most. Don't worry about what the consensus is on any given game. I would be interested to see what you enjoyed most.

OK - here goes…

1. Baldurs Gate II
Honourable mentions to the rest of the series, which I still play through on a regular basis. The characters, locations, and imagination of the sidequests keeps me coming back for more. It captured the feel of P&P for me in a way that more rule focussed turn based games strangely often miss.

2. Fallout I
Simply awesome storytelling, great atmosphere, and loads of scope for different approaches. I prefer it to the second one… and I even like the time limit

3. Pool of Radiance
Probably a certain element of nostalgia goggles, but I think this is still a great game. The Gold Box games getting released on GOG made me very happy, although some of the design carried over from early D&D rules (eg racial level caps) are a bit annoying if you play through the whole series.

4. Deus Ex
The way the game allowed you to approach challenges in different ways was brilliant. The first couple of times I hacked my way into something that looked off limits to find story information blew my mind. I haven't replayed it in years though… Maybe time to fire it up…

5. Dark Souls
I'm not normally a fan of ARPGs, and it took me a couple of attempts to get into it, but when I did I was hooked. The level design is brilliant, especially the interconnectivity of the areas - something later games in the series didn't do as well in my opinion. The exploration was great.

6. Mass Effect 2
Planet scanning is terrible. Levelling up feels pointless. The individual quests are often too linear. Hacking mini games are annoying. But as an overall game I think it rocks. Great characters and an interesting story, totally scratched my "wannabe Captain Kirk" itch, and an interesting world to explore.

7. Divinity Original Sin
Colourful, fun, great combat. My favorite of the more recent rpgs. I even liked the humour, which puts me in a minority of one I think!

8. Dragon Age: Origins
The origin stories were a great idea, its a shame subsequent Bioware games haven't developed this idea further. Also, great choice and consequence, and an interesting human villain. The Landsmeet is a brilliantly written scene. I actually started thinking I was going to lose that argument… I was more convinced by Loghain!

9. Avernum: Escape from the Pit
I wasn't sure about including this one, as I only played it recently. But I had such a good time exploring the caves and working out how to beat the great quests that I think it's on the list.

10. Icewind Dale
Dungeon crawling in the Infinity Engine? Excellent! And some of the battles were so eye watering frustrating (looking at you, giant snake thing) that they remain scarred into my brain forever I think. Still, massively satisfying when they went down!

Further honourable mentions to the Grimrock series, Neverwinter Nights, and the Elder Scrolls series (particularly Oblivion, despite its many, many flaws).

Pongo said:

OK - here goes…

3. Pool of Radiance
Probably a certain element of nostalgia goggles, but I think this is still a great game. The Gold Box games getting released on GOG made me very happy, although some of the design carried over from early D&D rules (eg racial level caps) are a bit annoying if you play through the whole series.

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Interestingly enough I have played Pool of Radiance recently and you can see the influence that game had on the infinity engine titles. Defeating the bandit leader gives you access to his lair and free resting which is equivalent to the stronghold areas in later games like bg2, albeit simply done and with no additional quest content.

Little set piece encounters with monsters whom you can communicate with to change the outcome are also present in the infinity engine games. I particularly liked the 'disguise' segment heading to the auction with your ability to bluff when challenged. The sleep spell being OP on low level mobs is definitely a feature bg1 made sure to copy and there are puzzles to break up the flow occasionally.

I always considered Baldur's Gate a spiritual sequel to the Gold Box games.

Yeah the auction is an interesting quest. I think there are also similarities when the map opens up and you finally get to leave the city of Phlan and explore the surrounding area.

Pongo said:

4. Deus Ex
The way the game allowed you to approach challenges in different ways was brilliant. The first couple of times I hacked my way into something that looked off limits to find story information blew my mind. I haven't replayed it in years though… Maybe time to fire it up….

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When you do decide to replay it, check out the GMDX mod. It is, imo, the best mod for DX by far. It improves the overall experience without changing it in ways that feel unintended.

JDR13 said:

When you do decide to replay it, check out the GMDX mod. It is, imo, the best mod for DX by far. It improves the overall experience without changing it in ways that feel unintended.

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Thanks - I hadn't heard of that and it does look good.

Pongo said:

Yeah the auction is an interesting quest. I think there are also similarities when the map opens up and you finally get to leave the city of Phlan and explore the surrounding area.

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I haven't finished it yet but its made a good impression. The Gold Box companion has made the game playable for me with its auto-mapping and journal entries. Of course you still discover the map as you go and you need to label everything you find but the usability shoots up overall. The ole going back to temple to train a level is now an optional feature! Carrying all that money is a bother through but I work around it with the GBC. I make sure I don't cheat through - I just work around annoyances like being overburdened by pretending I went back to town to bank my gold.

Thats the tricky thing with old games when you don't have the printed documentation and the UI takes some getting used to but there is a good game in there.

Blimey, thanks Silver - I'd never heard of the Gold Box Companion before, but it looks brilliant. Get's rid of racial level caps, and looks like it fixes the tedious stuff like healing and memorising spells, which does feel like busy work these days. I'm definitely giving it a go!

For anyone interested check this link:
http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jhirvonen/gbc/

Pongo said:

Blimey, thanks Silver - I'd never heard of the Gold Box Companion before, but it looks brilliant. Get's rid of racial level caps, and looks like it fixes the tedious stuff like healing and memorising spells, which does feel like busy work these days. I'm definitely giving it a go!

For anyone interested check this link:
http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jhirvonen/gbc/

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No problem. Its worth noting it works for all Gold Box games including the Buck Rogers ones.

Pongo said:

I agree with the comments on Throne of Bhaal - you definitely did start to feel overpowered (my kensai dual wielding Crom Faer and Celestial Fury was a monster ), it was mainly about the combat, and loot eventually lost its meaning. Having said that, it still had some good moments, especially first time round. Before I figured out the correct tactics, the dark elf with her statues and the dragon that turns invisible to heal itself were real challenges that I enjoyed.

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Aaah, Sendai (Drow statue) battle. Yes, I struggled with that one too. Funny enough, I was fine with Abazigal (Dragon) but his son Draconis totally kicked my ass.

Btw, nice top 10 list, Pongo!

I don't understand how you guys can rate these games so precisely. Simply too many excellent RPGs throughout time for me to even attempt it.

NewDArt said:

I don't understand how you guys can rate these games so precisely. Simply too many excellent RPGs throughout time for me to even attempt it.

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I haven't really played that many RPGs cause I'm a rather picky person. I also know what I like

NewDArt said:

I don't understand how you guys can rate these games so precisely. Simply too many excellent RPGs throughout time for me to even attempt it.

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Well its not an objective exercise. Its all about personal enjoyment. Some games I have rated highly are technically quite primitive but that was irrelevant to the fun I got out of those titles and still get out of them today.

I can see your meaning through which is why I tried to break my list up by category of rpg. Through rpg as a term is so broad its an exercise in futility somewhat which is why I focus on the fun broadly speaking when making my list.

NewDArt said:

I don't understand how you guys can rate these games so precisely. Simply too many excellent RPGs throughout time for me to even attempt it.

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Ha, yeah its shifting sands alright! That's the top ten for this morning, but on another day Oblivion might have crept up a bit for sure...

Purpleblob, yeah its funny how these things work out - I don't remember having any problems with Draconis, but Abizagal frustrated me for ages. My favorite flukey win against Abazigal was when he killed my magic user, who I'd forgotten I'd loaded up with three Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting's to fire at the nearest target as a continency when reduced to 50% health or something. Abizigal took the full load and died... and I spent five minutes trying to work out how I'd managed to do it!

By faaaaaaar the most frustrating Baldur's Gate fight in the entire series for me is the demon you meet in Ulgoth's Beard. The hours I've spent fighting that bloody thing, I dread to think about it!

I guess you have a point

I do think I could probably make a top 5 CRPGs - where each game would move up and down depending on what day of the week it was

NewDArt said:

I guess you have a point

I do think I could probably make a top 5 CRPGs - where each game would move up and down depending on what day of the week it was

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It's how it works, there's no scientific approach, a mood, a quick selection, a quick sort and you get your list. Yesterday, blam 10 Bioware games, not even looking incoherent.

Top 10 companions of all time, that's a lot more difficult to do. Ha well why bother, it will be 10 companions made by Bioware, no surprise to expect.

This is hard to do. Do I include the ones that gave me extreme amounts of pleasure but no longer do so or do just those I would play now? I would probably not play anything before Baldur's Gate. So

1. Baldur's Gate 2 & most of ToB - I think it takes me back to a time when RPGs stopped being a vast mapping exercise and the NPCs stopped being meat-suits. Just brilliant. Still play now and again but usually get distracted by other games.

2. Dragon Age: Origins - I am one of those people who can't get this to work on modern machines. It crashes too often but I still re-install it and play until it gets too much.

3. System Shock 1 &2 - what can I say. Just brilliant.

4. The Witcher EE - at the time it was so different from anything else I had played. Story telling on a grand scale, a new magic/ combat system, and "gray" NPCs.

5. Torchlight 1 & 2 - just adrenaline fuelled action RPG. I love it but I don't know why.

6. TES stuff but Oblivion with all the mods which almost made it a different game.

7. Mass Effect franchise for the storytelling and the characters.

8. Neverwinter Nights and the user mods that explored so many different ideas and concepts.

Now I am struggling to add to the list so I will go with some golden oldies.

9. The Underworld series. Played in the mid 1990s and it just was so different from anything else I had played. I remember my PC swimming, lighting torches and trying not to take sides.

10. Ultima 7 - I loved the stories around the Ultima series though I didn't really understand the combat system. Some how I always managed to fudge my way through.

regards

I didn't play Ultima back in the day, but I had a go at Ultima VII very recently. I found the perspective a bit off-putting and the text difficult to read so didn't stick with it for long. I really should go back and give it another go, it has such a good reputation and I'm sure a few mods would make it a bit easier on the eye these days.

Pongo said:

I didn't play Ultima back in the day, but I had a go at Ultima VII very recently. I found the perspective a bit off-putting and the text difficult to read so didn't stick with it for long. I really should go back and give it another go, it has such a good reputation and I'm sure a few mods would make it a bit easier on the eye these days.

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That's a key problem of those all time lists, many oldies became old on many aspects. For Ultima 7 the hectic movements, the painful combats, the writing quite too sermonizing and the Old English becoming for me Old French is a very pompous style.

Myself I gave up, when doing such list I don't consider anymore CRPG older than Fallout 1.