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Thumbs down [Rant] The future of the PC platform …

July 6th, 2007, 19:22
… lies with war games and combat games.

This is the first impression I get when browsing through gaming magazines.

I took a gaming magazine (thin, nothing important) of an electronics chain two days ago.
Yes, it's a real gaming magazine with more or less serious reviews - not as serious as professional gaming magazines do, but nevertheless.

And it's multi-platform.

This is what I see :

Page 2 & 3: Bioshock, looks dark, grim, and menacing, PC
Page 6: "Custom Robo Arena", looks colourful & fun, NDS
Page 7: "Kirby Mouse Attack", also colourful and just fun, NDS
Page 8: Tomb Raider 10th Anniversary, PC, darker look, PC, PS2, PSP
Page 9: Wario: Master of Disguise, still looks quite colourful, NDS
Page 10 & 11: Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter 2, PC, PSP, PS3, XBOX360, dark, grey, war, combat
Page 12 & 13: Splinter Cell: Conviction, PC, XBOX360, dark, grey, war, combat
Page 14 & 15: Arena Wars Reloaded, PC, war, combat
Page 16 & 17: Loki, PC, (dark) colourful, war, combat
Page 18 & 19: Pekémon Editionen Diamant & Perl, NDS, colourful
Page 20 & 21: Two Worlds, PC, XBOX360, dark, colourful, war, combat
Page 22 & 23: Guild Wars: Eye of the North, PC, dark, colourful, war, combat
Page 24 & 25: Tabula Rasa, PC, dark colourful, war, combat
Page 26 & 27: The Witcher, PC, dark, colourful, combat
Page 28 & 29: Mario Strikers Charged Football, Wii, colourful, looks rather like fun
Page 30 & 31: Mario Party 8, Wii, extremely colourful, fun

So, what i see is this : There are nothing but combat based games for the PC out there ! Lara Croft is the only exception.

Also, there is no colour in PC games anymore. well, except games that imitate the comic-look of WarCRaft and WOW, maybe.


So, if that's the future of the PC genre, then I'll resign. I don't see any sense in buying PC games anymore. What was once important to me is already gone - to other systems. There are no more Jump & Run games like Commander Keen, no more puzzle games like The Lost Vikings, hardly any colozurful games at all, everything has become dark and grim.

And the big publishers are supporting that. They just don't release anything anymore except games whe you have to battle someone or something.

I think, in my own PC-based gaming "career", this is the beginning of the end.
And now I understand why I love Tropico, Cultures, and the aboved games so much.

End of Rant.

Alrik.

P.S. : If it doesn't fit in here, then please move this thread into an appropriate section.
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July 6th, 2007, 19:28
so you get a look at the current issue of a particular gaming magazine and suddenly the sky is falling?
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July 6th, 2007, 19:36
I don't think PC gaming is any worse off than at some random "golden years" period. There's just so much stuff out there it's harder to comb through it all and find what you like.
And, how many games does one person need at any one time, anyways? Right now, I've got more than enough games to keep me occupied well beyond what the missus would like, I'd say

Wargames and combat games have always been big on the PC, there's no change there at all. The past few years have seen some excellent strategy titles come out.
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July 6th, 2007, 19:54
How do you consider "The witcher" a "combat" game? (whatever that means - I would say combat is part of nearly all games on the market except those for children and sports games etc)

Originally Posted by Gallifrey View Post
I don't think PC gaming is any worse off than at some random "golden years" period. There's just so much stuff out there it's harder to comb through it all and find what you like.
I think quite a few people would disagree with you. Pretty hard to get an old school RPG fix these days, sure there are a few indie games coming out soon (broken hourglass, AoD, Avernum 5 etc) but they aren't exactly games you can walk into a shop and buy.
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July 6th, 2007, 20:23
Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
I think quite a few people would disagree with you. Pretty hard to get an old school RPG fix these days, sure there are a few indie games coming out soon (broken hourglass, AoD, Avernum 5 etc) but they aren't exactly games you can walk into a shop and buy.
Well there is more to the game market than RPGs, of course. The OP mentioned a lack of games he liked lacking, and those games were not RPGs, so I was replying with a broader stroke than just sticking to one genre.
It is true that the RPG genre is hurting and generally abused by the big-budget developers, which is a result of the changing industry from something small to something that generates more revenue than movies.
With the growth of digital distribution and advancing technology for less cost, I believe the indie "old school" RPG genre will undergo a resurgence. The big drawback to indie games for the longest time was the difficulty in getting product to an audience, but more and more people are embracing direct downloads, so that's a huge help. Not much need to walk into a store and get something off the shelf anymore.
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July 6th, 2007, 20:32
Originally Posted by Gallifrey View Post
Well there is more to the game market than RPGs, of course.
Yep, there is Madden 2007, Starcraft 2, Battlefield 2147, UT3, <insert endless list of sequels here>

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July 6th, 2007, 20:56
Sequels notwithstanding, I'm currently engaged in games of Caesar IV, Rome Total War and Anno 1701.

All great. And only one of them involves combat (to address the concerns of the OP).

And, looking at your signature, what's wrong with sequels, exactly?
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July 6th, 2007, 21:22
Originally Posted by Gallifrey View Post
And, how many games does one person need at any one time, anyways? Right now, I've got more than enough games to keep me occupied well beyond what the missus would like, I'd say
Never has there been a truer statement. Bow down, all, for any discussion after this point would be trivial at best.
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July 6th, 2007, 23:57
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Never has there been a truer statement. Bow down, all, for any discussion after this point would be trivial at best.
That would be true if you liked other genres. I like rpgs and some squad tbs's, so i have absolutley nothing to play. I've played and replayed every game I like, and tried to replay the ones I don't like incase something changed, but I still don't like them. So I'm SOL until the indie guys start releasing.

I took a gaming magazine (thin, nothing important) of an electronics chain two days ago.
Yes, it's a real gaming magazine with more or less serious reviews - not as serious as professional gaming magazines do, but nevertheless.
You have to be kidding? Professional gaming mags? The ones that dub NWN and even FO3 as having TB combat? Those professionals? Calling the big mags professional would be like calling a scientist who claimed the earth was the center of the universe a professional.
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July 7th, 2007, 15:03
I have felt that the PC platform suffers heavily from lack of innovation. I see a few trends and very few games based on alternate concepts.

Diablo-clones
Crime-sims
War-sims
Another MMORPG

That's pretty much it. Games from other genrés have grown into an exception.

Only thing that gets better is the graphics.

Also the american market grows more and more dumb for every year while the japanese games grow smarter and smarter both storywise and in gameplay/challenge.

Excuse me, but where are american games like Katamari, ICO, Shadow of the Colossus and Okami? Where do we find american storylines that challenges Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy?

Bioshock is like an island of bliss in an ocean of diarrea.
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July 7th, 2007, 15:58
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post

Excuse me, but where are american games like Katamari, ICO, Shadow of the Colossus and Okami? Where do we find american storylines that challenges Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy?

Bioshock is like an island of bliss in an ocean of diarrea.
Excuse me but all those games you mentioned are craptastic (IMO) I guess we are all entitled to our own opinions but I find it slightly amusing you hold "Final Fantasy" up as a literary achievement. I don't really play games for their "stories" (for that I read books) but I think Planescape:Torment had a pretty good story, so did System Shock. Another rpg that had a really inventive story but was overlooked by most gamers was Ravenloft: The Stone Prophet, it had a story featuring two invulnerable/immortal mummies that hated each other trapped in an eternal struggle.

I think the Japanese Market suffers from the same malaise as us, Final Fantasy 13, Dragon Quest 9, blah blah blah.
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July 7th, 2007, 16:16
Wtf did you just call Gems like Katamari, ICO, Shadow of the Colossus and Okami,Metal Gear Solid craptastic? Are you f******out of your mind? These games are way better then anything any american dev has ever made!
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July 7th, 2007, 18:11
Originally Posted by tet666 View Post
These games are way better then anything any american dev has ever made!
You think Katamari is better than Planescape: Torment? I think your on the wrong forum.
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July 7th, 2007, 19:24
Lol PS.T came out 7 friggin years ago what american games of similiar good writing and or gameplay can you name in recent history ??
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July 7th, 2007, 20:36
American geniouses like Feargus Urquhart and Ken Levine are very, very rare, and they are not as daring now as they used to be.
Both PS:T and System Shock are now very very old. Each new game from Bioware/Obsidian have been gold but they are 2-3 years between and there are no other developer to fill the void in between. Compare this to Playstation 2 that have had spectacularly deep and unique games coming every month since the console was born.

And the Final Fantasies series are not just rehashes/cashins of the same old concepts. No, each game is very well written using deep and complex storylines, very deep characters and advanced mechanics by modern standards, often remaking the entire system from scratch for every new game they come up with. Theese are also HUGE games, making even the longest american games to appear like lunchbreak.

And no, Katamari and PS:T cannot be compared. Katamari is spectacular due to its innovative nature. PS:T was great for it's philosophical questions and superb storyline and dialogue, but few western developers waste time with moral concepts and what it means to be human. The japanese do so all the time in their storydriven roleplaying games but also in action games and horror games.
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July 7th, 2007, 21:15
Since the beginning of 2006 I have finished 89 games.

I had a look to see how many of thoose games were actually released that year, then I checked up where they were made. Here's the list:

2006:
Broken Sword IV, British
Broken World, American
C.S.I. 3: Dimensions of Murder, American
Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth, British
Dark Messiah of Might & Magic, France
Dreamfall, Norweigan
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, American
Gothic III, Germany
Half Life 2: Episode One, American
Neverwinter Nights 2, American
Prey, American
Scratches, Argentina
Secret Files: Tunguska, Germany
Splinter Cell Double Agent, American
Tomb Raider: Legend, British

2007:
Infernal, Poland
Runaway 2, Spanish
S.T.A.L.K.E.R, Ukraina
Sam & Max (Episodes), American

As you can see, there are quite few of thoose 89 games I played that were actually released 2006-2007 (21%) and most of them were small market adventuregames and very few of them were complex roleplayinggames. I also cannot claim that all theese games were good nor entertaining or memorable and I have not given up on PC gaming, nor have i grown too old for games. It's just that theres extremely few games released on PC that offers me the stuff which I enjoy which means a good interactive story.
Last edited by JemyM; July 7th, 2007 at 23:11.
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July 8th, 2007, 14:21
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
I have felt that the PC platform suffers heavily from lack of innovation. I see a few trends and very few games based on alternate concepts.

Diablo-clones
Crime-sims
War-sims
Another MMORPG

That's pretty much it. Games from other genrés have grown into an exception.

Only thing that gets better is the graphics.
This is basically how I see it as well.

What no-one of you seems to notice (anymore) is the complete lack of adventure games on that list - apart from Lara Croft. And even that involves combat.

Gone are the times when any good adventure could entertain the masses simply by riddles (I'm thinking of the old Sierra Adventures, especially), nowadays riddles have almost compeltely gone or are replaced by some kind of riddles that require some kind of "action".

I remember 'good old' Sierra adventures being advertised as being mega-sellers - and they included nothing but story and riddles ! (At least the Roberta Williams Collection says so - that they were mega-sellers at their time.)
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July 8th, 2007, 19:09
well, that's pretty much all the platform was capable of at the time those really old games were made, right? They had no choice!

Making the equivelent of one of those old williams titles would be like asking someone to make a modern silent film. There would be an audience, but it would be a very small one. Why make a game that nobody is going to buy?

There are still a lot of those types of games made I think, they just have been shifted over to the children's area. If you dont mind playing a Dora the Explorer game, I think you might be able to get something like one of those old Sierra titles
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July 8th, 2007, 21:50
Well, people do watch movies like "The Last Unicorn" … OKay, nowadays less, since nobody makes movies like trhat anymore … Nowadays it's rather like Anime or Wallace & Gromit, so to say …
(Just to make this clear: I KNOW that I'm omitting a whole lot of other animation movies … )
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July 8th, 2007, 23:29
Originally Posted by xSamhainx View Post
well, that's pretty much all the platform was capable of at the time those really old games were made, right? They had no choice!

Making the equivelent of one of those old williams titles would be like asking someone to make a modern silent film. There would be an audience, but it would be a very small one. Why make a game that nobody is going to buy?

There are still a lot of those types of games made I think, they just have been shifted over to the children's area. If you dont mind playing a Dora the Explorer game, I think you might be able to get something like one of those old Sierra titles
It always been the story for me, but few games of today sell based on good stories.
Im fine with games like KOTOR and Silent Hill as a replacement for the classic point & click adventuregames, but they are barely making games like that anymore either, at least not for PC.
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