RPGWatch - Shortlisting the GOTY

I really loved Rimworld but listing that as an RPG is... weird

Kind of...but...Kenshi and Star Control isnt?

I mean if you just go with a checklist...

It has attributes, traits, skills, an item system, experience...

Kordanor said:

Kind of…but…Kenshi and Star Control isnt?

I mean if you just go with a checklist…

It has attributes, traits, skills, an item system, experience…

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Yeah as XCOM but that doesn't make XCOM (or Battletech) a RPG.

Let see what steam players tag Rimworlds, Base Building, Survival, Strategy, Sandbox, it's saying a lot.

Are you really saying that Rimworlds is a RPG? Or that Kenshi and Star Control 3 (or Origins) aren't RPG?

HiddenX said:

The Watch was never restrictive
We exclude non-PC games and MMOs.

Borderline RPGs won't get many votes.

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Because many members won't agree it's a RPG, and it's not fitting a GOTY RPG and then won't vote for them.

That the forum or the curator is more welcoming about borderline RPG doesn't makes more credible to make GOTY RPG a game like XCOM.

Let face it, if someone check a list of nominee or candidates to RPG GOTY at watch or codex, it's not much to get a list of games that enjoy their members but to get a list of RPG.

HiddenX said:

The Watch was never restrictive
We exclude non-PC games and MMOs.

Borderline RPGs won't get many votes.

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But including the borderline RPGs in the voting, when we all know they have no chance of winning, just means that many people will be "wasting" their votes. Doesn't it make more sense to only include games that actually have a chance of winning, so that people can have more of a say on that particular set of games?

You guys make it more complicated than it is.

A vote for a lesser known game is not "wasted", because the vote-count-number will show other users that there is an interesting game they have missed.

Well, if that's the goal of the list, then sure.

I figured the point was to find the consensus "best RPG of the year". And lots of people wasting their votes on fringe games doesn't help determine that. Much like in an election, you'd need a run-off after the first round.

The top 5 is already established I think - in some order it will be

Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Pillars of Eternity II
Kingdom Come: Deliverance
ATOM RPG
Kenshi

the places below are much more interesting for me. One of the best games of 2018 is for example The Great Gaias. Unfortunately it was ingnored by most people because it is an RPGMaker title.

Hmm, I would think Bard's Tale IV and/or BattleTech have a pretty good chance of scoring higher than the last 2 on your list.

HiddenX said:

I can cut it down to 42 games:
(...)
Dead Cells
(...)

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Sorry to disagree here, friend, but IMHO Dead Cells is not an RPG.

Maybe have an editor's choice section after showing the top games by votes. Then those choices can show what the various rpg editors thought were the best games to them.

Arkadia7 said:

Maybe have an editor's choice section after showing the top games by votes. Then those choices can show what the various rpg editors thought were the best games to them.

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Don't we always have that?

HiddenX said:

We could, because they have no chance of winning, but I think it is unfair to exclude games with very high player ratings.

Even to be nominated for RPGWatch is an honor and gets them some well earned attention.

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While I understand your point of view I think a shorter list is better. I also question whether Steam ratings should be the basis for a nomination considering two of the games we agree have a good chance of being in the top 3 (Pathfinder and Kingdom Come) a sitting with Mixed or Mostly Positive ratings.
I really wonder if anyone who has played any of the games I have listed would consider them as worthy candidates for our list (I haven't played any of them to be fair). I wonder how many of them would also pass our RPG test to be considered actual rpgs. The number of actual ratings for many of these games is actually pretty small as well, which may skew them towards positive.
I have no problem with the Great Gaias as you have personally played it an think its worthy to be on our list.
I wonder how many people here would want to buy and play something like Dark Quest 2, or Dead Cells and think they are a worthy RPG of the year kind of game for our site, and I can't remember when a board game adaptation or a Metrovainia type roguelike were ever considered by us.
I also don't think having more RPGS on our list than the RPG Codex is necessary. After all we have always been a site that has preferred quality to quantity. (klein aber fein)
But maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I used the Steam ratings only for the game with a very low interest on RPGWatch.

What exactly is the point of a small list?
To make a smaller html-listbox?
To guide the users in the "right" direction?
To prevent that a "borderline RPG" can be voted?

Part of my job as the RPGWatch Steam curator is to get more attention for lesser known games. I'm always for quality over quantity, but especially this year the little indie games really were better than the vast majority of the so called AAA games.
I can only recommend to check them out.

I don't think 2018 was a defining year for RPG's, However I do think it was a good year for pc gaming in general. IMHO I think it comes down to either POE 2 or Kingmaker which I class as RPG,s

What ever gets GOTY is not going to change 2018, but what the short-listings has produced is a list of most anticipated 2019. Wow looking at my list it looks like it could be a really exciting year in RPG gaming.
Here's to 2019
Most Anticipated….
1. Disco Elysium
2. Druidstone: The Secret of the Menhir Forest
3. Realms Beyond
4. The Outer Worlds
5. Gloomhaven
6. Wasteland 3
7. Encased
8. Greedfall
9. The Iron Oath
10. Operencia: The Stolen Sun
11. Fell seal
12. Stygian: Reign of the Old Ones
13. Copper Dreams
14. Black Geyser: Couriers of Darkness

@HiddenX;

I have no problem pointing to not so well known "very good" games. I'd like to point out an example of a game that I'm playing, that's on your list because of Steam reviews, and that I wouldn't put on the GOTY list and that is Vigilantes, which I've invested 10+ hours in.

Vigilantes in on our list to begin with because the developer ran a Kickstarter and actively engaged our community here. Noone can deny that Vigilantes is a very solid tactical srpg in the vein of X-Com. It has no bugs I've run into, and all of the game's systems are solid. Its fun to play, but as a tactical game its in many ways inferior to X-Com. You've got 4 instead of 6 units. You can't go in buildings, there is no verticle elevation, and no fog of war. Enemy AI is also inferior. This means different maps don't seem so different, because the effects of terrain is more limited. The game hardly does anything new. Is it a decent, solid game. Yes, and its a decent buy for the price the developer is asking. But go and read the reviews and see if anyone thinks the game is fantastic. Most players think its a good, but not great game. So does a game like that deserve to be on our RPG of the year list? The same goes for Dark Quest 2 or some of the other games on the list.

Dark Quest 2 and Vigilantes were recommended by several Watchers and Steam friends to me. I bought them, but had no time to play them yet.

I think they belong on the list.

are we there yet? :lol:

Ok, if both were recommended to you by several players then they belong on the list.