Oblivion The Let's Rant and Rave About Oblivion Thread

JDR13 said:

Really?! A lot of people consider Morrowind a classic, and I'd have to say I agree. It was MUCH better than Oblivion imo, and it's an explorer's dream if you like sandbox style RPGs.

I'll never forget the first time I stepped off the boat in Seyda Need and looked around..... I almost fell out of my chair.

Daggerfall was slightly overrated imo, and I think the only reason it got so much attention was because of it's size and scope. I don't like randomized dungeons in crpgs, and seeing the same cookie cutter areas in DF grew old fast for me.

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Seconded. I replay Morrowind every 6 months or so (since release) and am still finding previously undiscovered secrets! (Admittedly no longer - I ended up checking out the wiki last run through only to discover I had had found/completed everything in previous play throughs...*sigh*)
If that isn't bang for your buck, then I don't know what is...

Now, if only Bethsoft could populate their worlds with complex and engaging NPCs to interact and develop with...

Morrowind and Oblivion are about equally bad, if you ask me - since they both suffer from the same core issues.

Oblivion looks better, though, but Morrowind was less generic.

As I said, I felt Morrowind was better... but not by alot. Both suffered from the same problem; too much ambition. The end result was an empty landscape, devoid af anything worthwhile.

I don't play RPGs to wander around for a half hour, and only manage to see a single wolf in that time frame. Nor do I play first person shooters for that purpose. I do like sandbox style games, provided the sandbox isn't empty!

DF probably was overrated. I recall liking it, but I haven't managed to get it working since the Win98 days. And even then, I bought it off clearance. Still has the sticker on the case even. I do remember constant crashing, glitching, and other annoyances.

I remember the first time I started in Morrowind as well. I looked around, and thought: "This looks good!". A half hour later, I was dozing off due to boredom.

As a comparison, I can sit down right now with World of Xeen, which I have beaten at least a dozen times (including a 2 person party once), and play the rest of the day without noticing it.

Daggerfall, sigh... my house in the mountains... oh the memories . Loved that game to bits. Played it last in 2004 on a Win 98 machine. With the 20 MB bugfix and cheats enabled so I could get back out of the notorious holes in the ground (the ones the Dwemer probably fell through and vanished)...
Perhaps I should go for another round?
Morrowind was and still is another favorite. So many nice houses, so many candles and lanterns (I grabbed them wherever I could to illuminate my houses - inside and out). Should reinstall that one, too, once I get hold of a machine able to run it. And I would even reinstall Oblivion (my least favorite of the four along with Arena) even if it was just so I could say hi to Hieronymus Lex. And buy the houses .
My pet peeve with Oblivion - apart from the small world - was the fact that you couldn't move light sources. Other than that I had tons of fun.
The problem with Arena was - right, no houses to acquire. Apart from that, the game was fun enough.
The best dialogue of all Elder Scrolls games (at least of those I played) was that in Battlespire. besides, I preferred the Battlespire approach to Oblivion and its denizens to the Oblivion approach to Oblivion and its denizens.
And I should replay Redguard while I'm still in the mood; now that I know which quest best NOT to finish early, I'm pretty sure it'll be a blast .

azraelck said:

As I said, I felt Morrowind was better... but not by alot. Both suffered from the same problem; too much ambition. The end result was an empty landscape, devoid af anything worthwhile.

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That description fits Daggerfall far more than Morrowind. It doesn't sound like you even explored much of Morrowind imo.

JDR13 said:

That description fits Daggerfall far more than Morrowind. It doesn't sound like you even explored much of Morrowind imo.

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I agree.

Morrowind had a lot to offer, a hell of a lot more than Oblivion (I disagree they are both bad).

Oblivion was generic, small in scope, didn't have a whole lot by way of additional lore, had a stale atmosphere, simple characters and dialogue, stupid main quest, and the loot scaling was horrible.

Morrowind on the other hand had a great setting (political, social and religious tensions), immersive atmosphere, intriguing main quest, and although the ENCYCLOPEDIA style dialogue system wasn't ideal, at least the dialogue was very well detailed and descriptive, not dumbed down at all (like in Oblivion & Fallout 3). It had a better character system (more skills), the combat system though not great was more in line with classic RPGs and lead to more specializing.

And you could really have a lot of fun with exploration. Why? Because you would always come across useful, interesting and sometimes unique items and not everything was scaled to your level. The walking speed was a bit slower too so it didn't feel like there was a dungeon every few feet.

Add the inclusion of Bloodmoon and Tribunal which both added new mechanics, and improved quests and Oblivion is nowhere in its league.

Oblivion did have better graphics TECHNICALLY but not artistically.

Oblivion's combat felt a bit more robust but it felt like twitch skills meant more than your actual skill level with a weapon.

Oblivion had a ton more voice acting but the dialogue was horrible AND using several different voices for 1 character's different responses was beyond lame. Completely took you out of the game. Not to mention the voice acting was terrible.

Morrowind's main quest drew you in slowly, a piece at a time. It was sensible and logical. In Oblivion, well I won't go into it but we all know how silly and ridiculous the whole scenario with the King getting killed and you a complete nobody being tasked with seeking his son out and, blah blah blah. It just seemed like it was thought up at the last minute. So unbelievable. So lame.

Now Morrowind had its faults of course. The NPCs standing around all day/night for instance. Of course having played many CRPGs and JRPGs in which NPCs pretty much did the same thing meant this didn't bother me as much but I will say Oblivion's system was better.

There was a greater variety of quests in Oblivion as well, and some of the quests were actually pretty well done.

Also I admit that to really get INTO Morrowind you had to read some of the books that were lying around. Reading those, especially the ones dealing with the history of the place really drew me in the game more even if the game world did feel a bit static at times. So yes, more imagination than usual was required to enjoy this title but it was worth it. Bethesda will be known for their million selling sandboxy blockbusters but they should really be known for giving us the Elder Scrolls Universe which is really a unique and interesting game world

So it wasn't a perfect game by any stretch but it had soul and you can see those that worked on the game cared a great deal about the source. It's like some progressive rock magnum opus where more is revealed upon each successive listen, little details that you may not have noticed previously, music with depth, nuance.

Oblivion on the other hand feels like top 40 generic crap intended for quick consumption. Fun for a little bit but very little substance or staying power.


Also Cliffracers. Lol.

Euh. I actually like to have a thread for ranting about ALL the popular games. For each game, you select one thing that you don't like the most and let 's hear about it.

Raving is easy but ranting may not be allowed since it isn't good for business.

Let's see how you react to this: (1) the spawning of quests ' monsters in big D or (2) the yawning in BG I.

Morrowind was great, but after a while it kind of felt lonely. Can't really put my finger on why. The odd setting definitely furthered its appeal. No high fantasy bright-green woods and all the usual trappings of most RPGs these days. With that said, though, I definitely enjoyed Oblivion as well. The Dark Brotherhood questline was simply amazing and way more fun for me than the main story. The reference to the Friday the 13th movies was pretty sweet too.

I bought Morrowind the week it came out and replay it about every year, still finding new things on my different playthroughs. The crazy thing is still, to this day, I've NEVER completed the main story. I just always end up getting sidetracked with all the optional quests, usually right away in Balmora. With Oblivion I completed everything it had to offer within about a year of casual playing.

Both games are great in my view and I really don't understand how people dislike either of them.

e: Oh, and the reference to Something Awful in Morrowind killed me when I found it.

Morrowind had a strong lore and background , of course battle and magic system was not the best but it had a believable world that i wanted to be part of .
I have spent hours reading books , re-examining story and finally deciding that i will not complete the MQ because i do not want to be manipulated by Azura .
I never care about gear and weapons in RPGs but hand placed objects plus lots of secrets and the concept that "your character can do this and not that , it is not your skill that matters but his abilities" appeal to me a lot .

Oblivion gave me the opportunity to play as an archer/sniper with it's almost perfect archery and improved stealth but beyond that there was nothing , too much hand holding, quests were boring, level scaling atrocious , books uninteresting and battle/environment generic .It is an empty world stripped of all it's essence , 500 lines of speech never gave me the rush that a Dunmer voice only saying "Outlander" could.

It's truly difficult not to be blown away by the amount of love Bethsoft shows their games. Definitely one of my favorite developers. There's hardly any "bland" areas, most are intricately crafted and really detailed. To see people still putting this much hard work into games and not just churning out some crap for a quick buck is really refreshing. Even though some dislike Oblivion, or Fallout 3, you really can't knock either game on the amount of detail, which is awesome.

larry138 said:

It's truly difficult not to be blown away by the amount of love Bethsoft shows their games. Definitely one of my favorite developers. There's hardly any "bland" areas, most are intricately crafted and really detailed. To see people still putting this much hard work into games and not just churning out some crap for a quick buck is really refreshing. Even though some dislike Oblivion, or Fallout 3, you really can't knock either game on the amount of detail, which is awesome.

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I agree for the most part, although I don't think Oblivion is on the same level as Morrowind, or even Fallout 3.

I guess Bethesda can't be called lazy, they certainly put a lot of attention into details as far as their "worlds" are concerned.

Still, they need to pay a bit more attention to gameplay elements and stop making games that cater to RPG noobs. It's great that they want their games to be easy to get into but that's why some developers add TUTORIAL levels to their games. I don't want Quest/NPC GPS and step-by-step pop ups that leave NOTHING to the imagination.

They also need to stop appealing to FPS/Action game fans (Bioware is guilty of this as well).

I would love a game with the detail and amount of lore in Morrowind with some gameplay to match. More interactive NPCs, scripted events, and more quest solution options would have helped that game immensely. Still loved it.

I’m a big fan of the TES series, despite its flaws. IMO, its weaknesses fall into two categories -- problems related to game balance and problems related to the sheer size of a true sandbox RPG.

It's worth noting that the simplifications in the series began with Morrowind (something Morrowind fans sometimes hate to be reminded of, but true nonetheless). For instance, training became an out-and-out exploit compared to Daggerfall, and the reputation system was gutted completely.

That's not to say Morrowind was crap. It wasn't crap. But it was simpler than the previous TES game.

IMO, a sandbox RPG without strict controls (e.g. Gothic) can't be done successfully as a single game, because it's just too big. Bethesda might want to try to figure out how it could turn the TES series into a single-player RPG universe, IMO, something that could work dynamically. That might enable solutions for its balance and size issues, I think, and would put it in a position to compete with WoW for its subscriber base.

You have to look at what they've done from a business standpoint as well. Making their games appeal to a large audience rakes in a ton more profit. Sure, all of us here would probably love Oblivion without the handholding and such, but doing that made the game accessible to those who don't normally play games of this nature.

A lot of my good friends don't play games, at all. Nearly every single one of them played Oblivion. That's probably about 10 people at $60 a piece, whereas if they didn't make the game user friendly they would've only gotten my money. Same situation for Fallout 3. Because these people liked Oblivion/F3 so much, they've gone back and bought earlier games in the franchise. Even more cash.

When you factor in that they wanted to appeal to a large audience and dumbed down a lot of parts, the game still does a commendable job at appealing to old fans as well. You may dislike the ease of use yet it's bearable.

larry138 said:

When you factor in that they wanted to appeal to a large audience and dumbed down a lot of parts, the game still does a commendable job at appealing to old fans as well. You may dislike the ease of use yet it's bearable.

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I disagree. While it's commendable that they make games for a broad audience, it hurts true RPG fans in the long run and it really hurts the genre.

Who wouldn't want the sales of Oblivion or Fallout 3? Or Mass Effect?

Sadly, we'll probably NEVER see another game like Wizardry 8, Baldur's Gate II, Arcanum or many of the more traditional RPG games released in the "good old days".

2001 - 2002 were the last of the great years:

Morrowind
IWD2
NWN (MQ sucked but it was still traditional D&D and multiplayer & mod scene was good)
Divine Divinity
Arcanum
Wizardy 8
BG2: Throne of Bhall
Gothic
Morrowind: Tribunal

Relayer said:

2001 - 2002 were the last of the great years:

Morrowind
IWD2
NWN (MQ sucked but it was still traditional D&D and multiplayer & mod scene was good)
Divine Divinity
Arcanum
Wizardy 8
BG2: Throne of Bhall
Gothic
Morrowind: Tribunal

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What is it these games had that modern games lack?

Übereil

Ubereil said:

What is it these games had that modern games lack?l

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They were actually good?

I think that he just means that in years 2001/2002 there were many good cRPGs while in recent years there are not so many (if any) every year.

Well, there are two games on that list I finnished, and I tried all of them (apart from ToB, because I never got through SoA. And that Morrowind Tribunal thingy, for pretty much the same reason). And that was back in the days when I finnished RPG's.

What was so great about those games that modern RPG's lack?

Übereil

Ubereil said:

What is it these games had that modern games lack?

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In a nutshell: what JDR13 said!

Most of those games were challenging, had a decent balance (usually) of gameplay, story and features. Most weren't linear, or held your hand.

Today's games are mostly ALL story and flash with very little gameplay. They practically play themselves.

Most of those games are also highly replayable. Why on earth would I want to go through Jade Empire, NWN2 or Mass Effect again? They were [mildly] enjoyable the first time but there was nothing special about them and basically you see everything there is to see on 1 playthrough.

And most game nowadays lack character and charm. They're by-the-numbers, dull, nothing we haven't seen before. They use fancier graphical technology but do nothing groundbreaking in terms of gameplay experience.

I think what pisses me off even more is that it seems every RPG these days uses some FPS or FPS hybrid system. What's wrong with turn-based group combat? What's wrong with stats heavily affecting gameplay? Modern RPGs are really Action games w/RPG elements. Not much of a step up from Zelda.

And too much time AND money is spent these days on voice acting and graphics when involving gameplay is what matters. And not the type of gameplay where you're guaranteed to win every battle or have a ton of dialogue options that STILL lead to the same result.