Godus - Molyneux on F2P & Monetization

What a treat! One of the funniest interviews i've read. Finally someone dares to calls him out.

First question from that interview:

RPS: Do you think that you’re a pathological liar?

Peter Molyneux: That’s a very…

RPS: I know it’s a harsh question, but it seems an important question to ask because there do seem to be lots and lots of lies piling up.

Peter Molyneux: I’m not aware of a single lie, actually. I’m aware of me saying things and because of circumstances often outside of our control those things don’t come to pass, but I don’t think that’s called lying, is it? I don’t think I’ve ever knowingly lied, at all. And if you want to call me on one I’ll talk about it for sure.

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And much later in that interview..

RPS: My first question wasn’t, ‘Are you a Machiavellian and spiteful liar’, it was ‘Are you a pathological liar?’ It was, do you say stuff that isn’t true without meaning to?

Peter Molyneux: Like anybody that is in the business of creating something that doesn’t exist, I say things that I believe is true, that very often don’t come true and sometimes do come true.

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What a strange man.

He reminds me of a guy who once came into our department to essentially figure out who to lay off. He had the exact same sort of demeanor: "I'm feeling very maudlin and sheepish this morning, but I am definitely here to fuck some people over."

A good analysis of the Molyneaux-cycle (great name, btw). Enjoy

Hilarious stuff. "If Molyneaux told me that the sky is blue, I'd look out the window to double-check ". )

danutz_plusplus said:

A good analysis of the Molyneaux-cycle (great name, btw). Enjoy

Hilarious stuff. "If Molyneaux told me that the sky is blue, I'd look out the window to double-check ". )

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No I believe him when he says he doesn't lie. I've known people like that, they're not liars. They just are extremely optimistic and huge dreamers. When they imagine something that they believe is totally doable, they say it out loud, trying to share their dreams with everybody because it's so cool! But then when the reality checks come, it all crumbles down.

Nah, he doesn't come across as a liar. He comes across as someone without long-term memory and as someone who doesn't (really) feel he should be accountable for his promises.

Personally, I don't think it's a big deal. He seems like a genuinely nice guy. The best thing for him to do is to get out of the spotlight and stop opening his mouth in public.

In the real world, it matters what you say out loud. Since you're taking money based on your promises - you really need to be accountable.

The only real issue I have with Molyneux is that I don't think he's got any talent as a game designer. That's only a problem because he's been in charge of teams with a lot of creative talent. He's an idea-man - but he can't translate them into something real.

So, he should have had a real designer as a buffer between him and the teams. That would have been great.

But instead, we got a ton of wasted potential.

Oh well.

That's an interesting observation Dart. I would like to make a comparison based on what you said with Warren Spector: Spector, like Molyneux, is a great idea man. The biggest difference is this (particularly with Deus Ex): Spector recognized his own limitations. He also recognized the enormous amount of talent he had on his various design teams over the years.

Spector was absolutely great as an "idea man" overseeing these teams because he knew when to step back and get out of his designers' way. He also recognized how and when to scale back the "big" ideas when necessary in order to focus on maximizing the core creative concepts of the game, without sacrificing the creative ambition driving a project like Deus Ex.

Molyneux is absolutely terrible at these crucial aspects of being in charge, and that's why he should never have risen to such prominent positions. Does he offer value in game design from a creative standpoint? Yeah, he has some truly wonderful ideas. But he never has had the right skill set to manage a team.

With these observations in mind, it's actually quite a miracle that his classic games from the 90's, Black and White, and Fable turned out as well as they did. With someone like Molyneux in charge, it is baffling that it took this long for a train-wreck like Godus to occur.

Well, I won't claim to have any deep knowledge of what went on behind the scenes, but it's my clear impression that Bullfrog/Lionhead were full of incredibly talented people. I say this because of the quality of the games - even if the designs themselves were far less than Molyneux promised when pitching them.

I was always extremely impressed with the engines and technology behind games like Magic Carpet and Black and White. Very unsusual for a team based in the UK, where budgets were usually much smaller.

Beyond that, I clearly remember reading an article about Syndicate - which AFAIK is the only Bullfrog game where Molyneux wasn't lead designer. He talked about passing the torch to their lead programmer (I think it was) - and I also remember the game delivering something much closer to the original vision, compared with the others. It was also a design that just worked, with excellent gameplay.

Spector always seemed to understand gameplay, though. I don't think he was as much an idea man as simply a competent producer with a ton of design insight. He seemed to "get" the importance of gameplay and the realities of developing something with a limited budget.

Molyneux never understood gameplay. He always talked about games as toys and ideas - but he never talked about mechanics or moment-to-moment stuff. I simply don't think he belongs in the designer seat. He should have been a source of inspiration and he should have been kept far away from the press.

Warren Spector > Peter Molyneux any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

"Molyneux" is French for "Bullshit".

Not a liar? Didn't he admit he promised a lot with Godus that he knew couldn't be done with the amount of money he was asking for? But he didn't want to ask for too much money because he knew he wouldn't get it? That sounds like a scam-artist to me.

Instead of being honest about how much it would cost, and letting the world decide if they want to take that risk, he bullshits, takes peoples money, and then says (and this he said openly in a community update for Godus) that they will work on it as long as they have money.

So basically he knew he couldn't accomplish what he promised with money he received, he wastes that money on God anyway, just so they have a job at the end of the day, and then he actually admits they've started work on another project (the trail). If that's not a bullshitter I don't know what is.

JDR13 said:

"Molyneux" is French for "Bullshit".

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Ditto.

If so, then I think we can call pretty much all Kickstarter developers scam-artists. For that matter, probably all developers who depend on selling an idea through a pitch. Oh, and everyone who's ever done a job interview for a function that required being able to do more than wash some dishes

They wouldn't all admit to it, though

JDR13 said:

Warren Spector > Peter Molyneux any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

"Molyneux" is French for "Bullshit".

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DArtagnan said:

If so, then I think we can call pretty much all Kickstarter developers scam-artists.

They wouldn't all admit to it, though

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That may well be, but my bullshit-sensors are way more sensitive to Molyneaux. I basically grew up with his praise his future game - release it and disappoint - praise his next future game while bashing his previous one - release it and disappoint - rinse and repeat cycle. I've developed an allergy to his ways.

No other developer/designer irks me the way he does. And if he wants to look at a good design, he should look at Will Wright.

While you have a point, no other person is so much in the media constantly. While you may exaggerate in an interview or while doing a pitch, there's a diffence between promising the moon and exaggerating here and there. In my opinion Molyneux strays so much towards promising the moon, that it's getting ridiculous. The very fact that most of the games industry noticed his bullshitting above all else is fact that he is a special case.

He's clearly full of shit - but, to me, that's not particularly uncommon. I think it helps that I stopped believing in his shit many, many years ago.

I've probably developed more of an immunity to it

I think the issue here is that he's not just full of shit, he's an attention whore - and he's communicating his bullshit to a lot of people - instead of just a few investors.

I guess you could call it Karma working its magic. But I still don't think he's done it with the sole intention to deceive or with malicious intent. Likely, he's simply incredibly unrealistic and - as I suggested - has a lack of long-term memory. Selectively so, probably

I have stronger feelings when it comes to people like Randy Pitchford - because he really does seem to be all about personal gain, and he seems to have no desire to actually create something worthy of his hype campaigns.

Don't get me started on big investors fueling companies like EA and Activision. Compared to those, Molyneux seems like a relatively innocent child.

They're so adept at fucking people, that they make them say "Thank you - please fuck me again in 6 months with some trivially made DLC"

DArtagnan said:

Don't get me started on big investors fueling companies like EA and Activision. Compared to those, Molyneux seems like a relatively innocent child.

They're so adept at fucking people, that they make them say "Thank you - please fuck me again in 6 months with some trivially made DLC"

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True, and I agree that overall they do much more damage. But they at least have no pretense of artistic value. They could care less about how they're perceived. Cold and calculated. Bottom-line is all that matters. Molyneux on the other hand gives me the impression he thinks himself a great artist and visionary designer.

He may have interesting ideas, but, come to think of it, anybody can have ideas that can't really be implemented. He's particularly known for promising the world, and then having his developers mad that he promised stuff they don't know can't be delivered. Anyone can dream-out-loud. Managing to put that to practices is a another story.

I probably give him a little more credit than you do, when it comes to original ideas. But I think he should be a toymaker instead of a game designer

I have mixed feelings about all this as I loved his past games, but have noticed all his new games over the last ten years have declined in quality. It's a shame really.

After reading all the articles this month some blame does rest on his shoulders. His Ex-PR Manager even said he never listened to him, and got mad when confronted.

In response to another poster's suggestion that Molyneux should have a PR person to keep his infamous larger-than-life promises to a minimum, Van Tilburgh replied, "That used to be me. Problem is he never listens to advice and instead will bully and insult you into oblivion if you dare to disagree with him."

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And one EX-Employee of 22Cans had this to say.

"You know what Peter Molyneux's like," an ex-22Cans employee told me while trying to sum up the infamous designer's tendency to make enormous promises and then just kinda… forget about them. "You try to hold onto his words and they slip through your fingers."

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So his skills are based on bullying and bullshitting? Sayonara...

Judging by these articles, working with him seems to be quite nerve-racking.

i guess ill have to take the contrarian stance here and admit - overwhelmingly, i like Peter's games. He's just a bit of a dreamer, or maybe a daydreamer lol

I thought Magic Carpet was really cool back in the day, but I was never really impressed by anything else he's done.

Well what do you know Godus has been renamed to Godus Wars. This seems to be a trend with games with bad reviews on Steam lately. So What do you all think ?

Link - http://store.steampowered.com/app/422420

Godus Wars is the exciting, new addition of combat into the Godus universe; mixing intricate real-time strategy gameplay with the unique land transformation of Godus. The development of Godus Wars proves that 22cans are never a company to back down from a challenge. All Kickstarter backers and previous Godus owners on Steam will be receiving Godus Wars as a major, free update.”

“In Godus Wars, the task before you is simple – Conquer the world. Choose between FOUR playable Deities, each with unique play styles, powers and abilities as you battle against a range of devious and dangerous opposing Deities.”

“The release of Wars proves that we are still dedicated to Godus and everyone who owns or has previously purchased Godus, already has Godus Wars! Yes! Godus Wars is free for all previous Godus Kickstarter backers & owners.

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