Kingdom Come - Drunk Quicksaves and More

Sounds like a waste of dev time, to me, but I guess if it's based on some fun in their forums, and is amusing to their backers, fair enough.

For me, I just hope they keep their promise of high quality modding tools, that are essentially what they built the game with. Even if their content is lackluster, it could be a terrific for an Enderal style project.
 
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Sure, but I don't think they should enforce any save constraint - have a 'hard core'/'ironman' mode if you want to dictate how people play.
Can't disagree more.
Strip Wolfenstein/Doom difficulty sillyness from RPGs so I don't have to read any more about size measurement the most important in lifetime achievements.

There is no dictate, you spam F5, your character gets drunk. There is no restriction, you can still do what you want, the only thing that'll happen is temporary (de)buff if you overdo something. No getting drunk if you quicksave occassionally, only if you "abuse" it.

As about actual dictating, how about supporting me here and there when I spam about Alpha Protocol checkpoints and similar consoles whatnot where I'm forced to pull my hair out when frequent power outage hits my home.
 
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First, the normal save feature is the same thing it always was. There's going to be no effect on how do your saves when it's time to stop for the night, just before spending skill points, or anything like that. However, if you try to get through a battle by saving every time you land a hit and re-loading every time you miss, you've got no chance at all.

Second - nanny games: are you kidding? The ENTIRE GAME WORLD is designed to try and drive you toward having fun! Every single wall you see is a restriction on player movement. Every time you get your character killed, you're being punished for wrong behavior. In this case, they are trying to tell people with way more pride than is good for them that they need to lower the difficutly setting instead of abusing the save system.

Third - I didn't play the demo so I don't know if they were using the paid voices at the time but I've definitely seen games use developers and/or Microsoft Bob's automatic text->speech conversion to cover it even late in development. It's cheap to change dialog at that point. It might not be *that* horribly expensive even later. (One thing that's still a mystery to me is the deep pockets this brand new studio seems to have.)
 
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(One thing that's still a mystery to me is the deep pockets this brand new studio seems to have.)
Some filthy rich guy I've never heard about before not after is funding IIRC 90% where KS gain was 10%. Something like that.
I mean… I don't socialize with filthy rich people. Only hobos allowed. :)
 
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First, the normal save feature is the same thing it always was. There's going to be no effect on how do your saves when it's time to stop for the night, just before spending skill points, or anything like that. However, if you try to get through a battle by saving every time you land a hit and re-loading every time you miss, you've got no chance at all.

Second - nanny games: are you kidding? The ENTIRE GAME WORLD is designed to try and drive you toward having fun! Every single wall you see is a restriction on player movement. Every time you get your character killed, you're being punished for wrong behavior. In this case, they are trying to tell people with way more pride than is good for them that they need to lower the difficutly setting instead of abusing the save system.

Yeah, I don't understand the reasoning behind calling it a "nanny feature" or whatever. I mean, you can take that logic and keep going to the point where you can just get rid of any sort of restriction meant to add any sort of challenge to the game.

"Oh, this hard enemy is restricting my progress. Where's the WIN NOW button?! Damn developers trying to impede my progress. :p "

This is why devs seem to be scared to death to put any challenging features in their games, and why you see things like level-scaling, bright map markers on your compass, etc. in every game.

Gamers may say they want a challenge but as soon as the challenge is implemented many of them complain, usually attempting to justify the complaint that the feature is just a bad feature, when it's their own frustration that the game has an added challenge feature.

These features are meant to make the game more interesting by giving you things to think about, consider and overcome. Just like an inventory limit in Skyrim, or Numenera's system of cypher items, etc..

Otherwise, why play a game at all if not to be challenged in some way?
 
"Use this convenience feature too much and you will be punished."

You don't understand why that's a "nanny" feature? Ok, I can see how it's really complicated :)
 
"Use this convenience feature too much and you will be punished."

You don't understand why that's a "nanny" feature? Ok, I can see how it's really complicated :)

Uh, a convenience feature that can be abused and remove challenge from the game?

It's not rocket science. These features are meant to add extra layers of consideration and challenge to the game. A quicksave feature in a game does not mean it needs to be able to be abused, and they are actually very clever for doing this as it's at least a fresh idea and attempt to add extra depth to the game.

An RPG is actually all about restrictions, even if it's touted as "go anywhere! Do anything!" a la Skyrim. You still have restrictions left and right as @Zloth; pointed out.
 
Uh, a convenience feature that can be abused and remove challenge from the game?

It's not rocket science. These features are meant to add extra layers of consideration and challenge to the game. A quicksave feature in a game does not mean it needs to be able to be abused, and they are actually very clever for doing this as it's at least a fresh idea and attempt to add extra depth to the game.

But if you don't like a feature you tend to call it bad design, so I understand.

Look, I know you think running away from enemies and doing quests is really challenging. Apparently, you also think not quick saving and instead waiting a little while is really challenging.

That's cool - we all have difficulty with different things.

To me, you either give people a convenience feature because it's supposed to be convenient - or you don't.

As was suggested above - they can simply make it optional or go for a "hard" mode without quick saving.

This wishy-washy crap is just going to be annoying and enforce meta decisions that are incredibly unimmersive.
 
I'll just quote the intelligent life form @Zloth; again.

First, the normal save feature is the same thing it always was. There's going to be no effect on how do your saves when it's time to stop for the night, just before spending skill points, or anything like that. However, if you try to get through a battle by saving every time you land a hit and re-loading every time you miss, you've got no chance at all.

Second - nanny games: are you kidding? The ENTIRE GAME WORLD is designed to try and drive you toward having fun! Every single wall you see is a restriction on player movement. Every time you get your character killed, you're being punished for wrong behavior. In this case, they are trying to tell people with way more pride than is good for them that they need to lower the difficutly setting instead of abusing the save system.
 
Hey, it's cool with me that you need your nanny to provide "challenge" ;)

It's also cool that you can't distinguish between the intentions behind different features.

I say let's agree to disagree.
 
Hey, it's cool with me that you need your nanny to provide "challenge" ;)

It's also cool that you can't distinguish between the intentions behind different features.

I say let's agree to disagree.

Agree to disagree about what? I explained what the feature is and why it exists. This is called a fact, not something up for debate.

A better approach would be to just admit that you don't like extra challenge like this in an RPG, or a challenge feature annoys you because you are obsessive when you play.

You really need to humble yourself bro. Trying to talk down to others the way you do is not a good look.
 
Agree to disagree about what? I explained what the feature is and why it exists. This is called a fact, not something up for debate.

A better approach would be to just admit that you don't like extra challenge like this in an RPG, or a challenge feature annoys you because you are obsessive when you play.

You really need to humble yourself bro. Trying to talk down to others the way you do is not a good look.

Fluent deciding that his opinion is fact and that I need to admit that I'm wrong, ending with talk about humility.

I have to say I find that very amusing ;)

That said, I still don't see much good coming from this. But if you really want to go on and on - so be it.

If you want your opinion to resemble a fact, I highly recommend rational arguments and not schoolyard tactics. They don't work with me.
 
I will say it seems very weird of them to put the drunk mechanic on the quick save but not the normal save. Assuming you'll be fine if you only save, say, once every 10 minutes, then why not put it on both?

I say let's agree to disagree.
I've told you before, that sort of attitude will kill the internet!! You must cease this destructive behavoir! ;)
 
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I will say it seems very weird of them to put the drunk mechanic on the quick save but not the normal save. Assuming you'll be fine if you only save, say, once every 10 minutes, then why not put it on both?

Exactly.

To me, quick save is not a "challenge reducer" - but a convenience feature almost exclusively about saving time. Do I ever use it as a crutch? Sometimes, if I'm tired or not motivated to invest fully.

But when I'm invested in a game, say Elex - I don't ever use it as an exploit during combat. It's not like it's hard to just not quick save.

One of my favorite games of all time is Fallout 4 in Survival mode - where there is no quick save or auto save.

To me, it's meaningful to create an experience without convenience saves in order to force tension.

But I consider it bad design to give players a convenience feature - and then restrict it. To me, that's a confused design.

Is it a big deal? Almost certainly not - but it's still silly.

Again, just make it optional - or create a game mode for people who want to have a more tension-filled experience, like Survival mode in Fallout 4.
 
Challenge ? Are you now claiming that this feature is to provide increase 'challenge' ? Which is it - a feature to prevent cheesy chest opening; a feature to annoy people or a feature to increase the challenge of the game? Perhaps it is all three though i would not call it a 'challenge feature' and I would lean towards the view it is an annoying feature though i think that depends on how quick you get drunk and how long you stay drunk.

In fact I think the only thing i would agree with is that you provided your interpretation of the feature.

Agree to disagree about what? I explained what the feature is and why it exists. This is called a fact, not something up for debate.

A better approach would be to just admit that you don't like extra challenge like this in an RPG, or a challenge feature annoys you because you are obsessive when you play.

You really need to humble yourself bro. Trying to talk down to others the way you do is not a good look.
 
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I don’t use quick saves anyway. I like the tension that living with your consequences or failures adds. That’s one great thing about DS imo.

I’m a little confused here though if you can still save normally aren’t they just adding a few more seconds to go to the menu save and re-enter the game. I don’t see how this will stop save scumming. It will just make it a little more inconvenient.
 
I don’t use quick saves anyway. I like the tension that living with your consequences or failures adds. That’s one great thing about DS imo.

Exactamundo!

I’m a little confused here though if you can still save normally aren’t they just adding a few more seconds to go to the menu save and re-enter the game. I don’t see how this will stop save scumming. It will just make it a little more inconvenient.

Don't know the full scoop on how it's implemented, but either way it's a start. Inconvenience could piss people off enough that they just stick with the feature and learn it. Or more likely, quit and leave a nasty review. :)

Challenge ? Are you now claiming that this feature is to provide increase 'challenge' ? Which is it - a feature to prevent cheesy chest opening; a feature to annoy people or a feature to increase the challenge of the game?

Restriction is part of the challenge in an RPG. It plays into the overall balance of the game, short-term and long-term.

Remove restrictions and RPGs would have unlimited skill points to spend, unlimited money, unlimited carry weight, unlimited rare herbs to pick and then any interesting "game" would cease to exist. It would be like chess altered so every piece could move like the queen.

For an example of a type of mechanic I'd consider similar, Lords of Xulima has a food mechanic where you had to buy food so your party could survive. Food was expensive, which restricted your spending of money and played into the overall balance of the game considerably. You had to make choices on how much food to buy, should I buy extra food for a long trip? Or a better shield for my Paladin? If you combine it with the Ironman feature, which restricted saving to town-only, all of a sudden you had an RPG like you'd dream of as a child. You're on a journey when you leave town, so you better be well-stocked! And while you're out there, you better work to survive!

This feature also allowed them to put food-related skills in the game, too, so you could spend skill points for a character to pick more herbs/food, and then you would have more money to better equip your characters. It is a trade-off, and a consideration had to be made when developing your character, as well as the overall party synergy, and how you spend your skill points and also your limited money. Developing the characters this way also differentiates characters, gives them personality through stat development and creates interesting decisions to make when leveling up. This is what a great RPG does, it gives you choice & consequence, not only in story, but also in gameplay.

Back to Kingdom Come. If you get drunk when consuming booze, that means you can't simply save-spam every 5 steps. This means that there is added tension. It means you will have to be more careful about exploration. The further you "go out" into the dangerous area, the more risk you will face. This is exciting in an RPG! What is a game without risk? A good developer will also reward the risk well. Maybe the longer you go without saving, the higher XP multiplier you get. Or the chance of encountering a rare encounter gets higher. There are lots of ways to do interesting things with these sorts of mechanics.

They could even have a "drink like a fish" perk where you can consume a bit more alcohol before getting sick. You may say, "So what? It's a small thing, why even have drunk quicksaves to begin with?", blah blah. But to get that perk it means you had to spend a point on it, which means you had the choice to get a different perk instead, knowing that the drinking perk would be very helpful as well. C&C gameplay. Different ways to be creative in how you build your character.

I know I'm in the minority with this (trust me, I know) and expect the usual backlash about these opinions (because most gamers just don't like to be challenged at all in games.) I enjoy a decent challenge in RPGs which is why I stick to mostly niche titles.
 
Exactamundo!



Don't know the full scoop on how it's implemented, but either way it's a start. Inconvenience could piss people off enough that they just stick with the feature and learn it. Or more likely, quit and leave a nasty review. :)



Restriction is part of the challenge in an RPG. It plays into the overall balance of the game, short-term and long-term.

Remove restrictions and RPGs would have unlimited skill points to spend, unlimited money, unlimited carry weight, unlimited rare herbs to pick and then any interesting "game" would cease to exist. It would be like chess altered so every piece could move like the queen.

For an example of a type of mechanic I'd consider similar, Lords of Xulima has a food mechanic where you had to buy food so your party could survive. Food was expensive, which restricted your spending of money and played into the overall balance of the game considerably. You had to make choices on how much food to buy, should I buy extra food for a long trip? Or a better shield for my Paladin? If you combine it with the Ironman feature, which restricted saving to town-only, all of a sudden you had an RPG like you'd dream of as a child. You're on a journey when you leave town, so you better be well-stocked! And while you're out there, you better work to survive!

This feature also allowed them to put food-related skills in the game, too, so you could spend skill points for a character to pick more herbs/food, and then you would have more money to better equip your characters. It is a trade-off, and a consideration had to be made when developing your character, as well as the overall party synergy, and how you spend your skill points and also your limited money. Developing the characters this way also differentiates characters, gives them personality through stat development and creates interesting decisions to make when leveling up. This is what a great RPG does, it gives you choice & consequence, not only in story, but also in gameplay.

Back to Kingdom Come. If you get drunk when consuming booze, that means you can't simply save-spam every 5 steps. This means that there is added tension. It means you will have to be more careful about exploration. The further you "go out" into the dangerous area, the more risk you will face. This is exciting in an RPG! What is a game without risk? A good developer will also reward the risk well. Maybe the longer you go without saving, the higher XP multiplier you get. Or the chance of encountering a rare encounter gets higher. There are lots of ways to do interesting things with these sorts of mechanics.

They could even have a "drink like a fish" perk where you can consume a bit more alcohol before getting sick. You may say, "So what? It's a small thing, why even have drunk quicksaves to begin with?", blah blah. But to get that perk it means you had to spend a point on it, which means you had the choice to get a different perk instead, knowing that the drinking perk would be very helpful as well. C&C gameplay. Different ways to be creative in how you build your character.

I know I'm in the minority with this (trust me, I know) and expect the usual backlash about these opinions (because most gamers just don't like to be challenged at all in games.) I enjoy a decent challenge in RPGs which is why I stick to mostly niche titles.
Personally I don't have an issue with your opinions but that you often tend to present as fact and the only possible opinion.

In this post you do very well at explaining yourself and your opinions in a more articulate way which makes it seem like your opinion and not fact.

Well done ☺

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This does not seem to prevent repeated quick loading. So... the glass is half full? With liquor.
 
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