|
Your donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » RPGWatch @ Gamescom - Realms Beyond Preview

Default RPGWatch @ Gamescom - Realms Beyond Preview

September 6th, 2018, 19:28
I don't dare to speak to him directly. I'm unworthy.
--
We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.
- George Bernard Shaw


Currently playing: Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Morrandir is offline

Morrandir

Morrandir's Avatar
SasqWatch
RPGWatch Donor
Original Sin 2 Donor

#61

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,929
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
+1:

Default 

September 6th, 2018, 19:41
Besides, he was welcomed already once. Can’t keep on doing that
--
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. Douglas Adams
There are no facts, only interpretations. Nietzsche
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go. Oscar Wilde
Myrthos is offline

Myrthos

Myrthos's Avatar
Cave Canem
Administrator
RPGWatch Team

#62

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 8,577
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)

Default 

September 6th, 2018, 19:46
Originally Posted by Myrthos View Post
Besides, he was welcomed already once. Can’t keep on doing that
Exactly. Can't very well congratulate someone every time they post something… @Guido Henkel, you COULD be a bit more active on the forums though. 17 posts in 5 years is…a bit low.
TomRon is offline

TomRon

TomRon's Avatar
SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor

#63

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,513
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)

Default 

September 6th, 2018, 20:00
Originally Posted by Farflame View Post
Wow, is that really real true Guido Henkel? RPG legend. Creator of RoA. Composer of RoA tunes. Welcome to the RPGWatch, Guido. You will be in the stars forever for RoA.

Guys, welcome properly this legendary man.
Genius behind Bobby carrot 3! (http://g3studios.com/games/bobby3/)
Why every oldschool legend has to carry on to make mobile or mmo trash is beyond me.
Hope he can really show his real genius again soon!
vidder is offline

vidder

Sentinel

#64

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 254
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

September 6th, 2018, 20:03
Couch spotted this gameplay video. It is in German though.
loading…
--
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. Douglas Adams
There are no facts, only interpretations. Nietzsche
Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go. Oscar Wilde
Myrthos is offline

Myrthos

Myrthos's Avatar
Cave Canem
Administrator
RPGWatch Team

#65

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 8,577
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
+1:

Default 

September 6th, 2018, 22:04
Thanks for that video. My German is a bit lacking but still an interesting watch. Is the Kickstarter supposed to start soon, I want to throw some money at them.
TomRon is offline

TomRon

TomRon's Avatar
SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor

#66

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,513
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)

Default 

September 7th, 2018, 05:19
Originally Posted by TomRon View Post
Thanks for that video. My German is a bit lacking but still an interesting watch. Is the Kickstarter supposed to start soon, I want to throw some money at them.
October, but exact date hasn't been decided AFAIK.
--
Currently Playing: Heroine's Quest, Quest For Infamy, Planescape: Torment
daveyd is offline

daveyd

daveyd's Avatar
Turn-based lifeform

#67

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 1,639
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
+1:

Default 

September 7th, 2018, 08:11
Very promising game. Looks like a dream combat system. D&D is the best system, by far, and no contest, have to say it. It is, after all, the foundation of all rpg systems of today. So there!

Don't you dare diss D&D around these here parts…
--
To check out my games library, and see what recent games I'm playing, visit my steam profile! -- http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197982351404
Arkadia7 is offline

Arkadia7

Arkadia7's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch
Original Sin 2 Donor

#68

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Pacific NorthWest, USA!
Posts: 1,231
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
+1:

Default 

September 7th, 2018, 09:16
The only reason I think people believe D&D is the best RPG system is because they haven't been exposed to more than a couple P&P systems, or because they're such hardcore traditionalists that they dislike anything that isn't like D&D out of principle.

That's also what makes debating it so futile. How are you supposed to argue that D&D isn't the best system with people that have only been exposed to D&D? You can't do it.

I can at least admire Morrandir for admitting that he hasn't played many games besides D&D, and yes, Dark Eye is a much better game that offers more flexibility.
Copper Coin is offline

Copper Coin

Copper Coin's Avatar
Outspoken D&D critic

#69

Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 866
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)

Default 

September 7th, 2018, 09:24
I could nitpicks over what I don't like about D&D, but it boils down to the fact that it's a combat-heavy system, but there are other systems that are deeper and more tactical, or faster and more realistic. If you like the roleplaying aspect of RPG games, D&D is terrible.
Copper Coin is offline

Copper Coin

Copper Coin's Avatar
Outspoken D&D critic

#70

Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 866
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)

Default 

September 7th, 2018, 10:43
I think people who believe themselves capable of establishing what's best for everyone - whilst basically assuming others don't actually know their own preferences because they're not experienced enough for an informed opinion - and who're also, at the same time, unwilling and incapable of arguing why this is all so - are not necessarily worth paying too much attention to.

Also, Dark Eye is a decent system - but, in my opinion, utterly inferior to D&D 3.5 when it comes to build diversity, the arsenal of power, the weight of progression and good old-fashioned fun combat.

Same goes for all the games I've played that are based around it.
Darth Tagnan is offline

Darth Tagnan

Darth Tagnan's Avatar
SasqWatch

#71

Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,620
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
+1:

Default 

September 7th, 2018, 11:17
Originally Posted by Silver Coin View Post
The only reason I think people believe D&D is the best RPG system is because they haven't been exposed to more than a couple P&P systems, or because they're such hardcore traditionalists that they dislike anything that isn't like D&D out of principle.

That's also what makes debating it so futile. How are you supposed to argue that D&D isn't the best system with people that have only been exposed to D&D? You can't do it.

I can at least admire Morrandir for admitting that he hasn't played many games besides D&D, and yes, Dark Eye is a much better game that offers more flexibility.
While there are better systems for PnP, in all my years of computer gaming, I have not run into a better one for computer RPGs. D&D has the perfect mix of combat options, character building options and enemies that have all kinds of different abilities. It is also based on tactical gameplay instead of action gameplay.
Archangel is offline

Archangel

SasqWatch

#72

Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,479
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)

Default 

September 7th, 2018, 12:18
Originally Posted by Farflame View Post
Wow, is that really real true Guido Henkel? RPG legend. Creator of RoA. Composer of RoA tunes. Welcome to the RPGWatch, Guido. You will be in the stars forever for RoA.

Guys, welcome properly this legendary man.
I recognised the name but I thought it was someone just using his name as homage. Didn't think it was the real person
lostforever is offline

lostforever

lostforever's Avatar
SasqWatch

#73

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 4,033
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)

Default 

September 7th, 2018, 12:23
Originally Posted by Silver Coin View Post
That's also what makes debating it so futile. How are you supposed to argue that D&D isn't the best system with people that have only been exposed to D&D? You can't do it.
Exactly. That'y why you can only argue that X is better than Y for all X,Y that everybody knows.
--
We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.
- George Bernard Shaw


Currently playing: Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Morrandir is offline

Morrandir

Morrandir's Avatar
SasqWatch
RPGWatch Donor
Original Sin 2 Donor

#74

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,929
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)

Default 

September 7th, 2018, 12:34
Older DnD systems like in the infinity games (2.5) is not very fun in my opinion although the games are brilliant. To little diversity in character builds especially for martial classes.

But I've yet to play a CRPG where character building is as much fun as it was in NwN2. The addition of feats and prestige classes made planning your character builds half of the enjoyment.

The only game that comes even close (that I've played) is PoE2, the addition of multiclassing on the already good PoE system makes it versatile enough to be really interesting.

Distinctive classes, loads of options. That's fun. (To me). I think that's what really made me disappointed in DA:O, it has nowhere near the possibilities of DnD 3.5 nor PoE. TDE? Haven't played it in PnP, but at least in the CRPG's that I've played that utilized it levelling felt nowhere near as rewarding as in DnD. That might have been more about implementation though.
TomRon is offline

TomRon

TomRon's Avatar
SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor

#75

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,513
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)

Default 

September 7th, 2018, 12:50
Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
Also, Dark Eye is a decent system - but, in my opinion, utterly inferior to D&D 3.5 when it comes to build diversity

That's complete nonsense. 4th edition Dark Eye essentially has freeform character building, or something very close to it, and more attributes and skill choices than D&D.

D&D has a very rigid class structure that doesn't allow for 1/4th the build diversity of Dark Eye. Pease stop talking out your ass.
Copper Coin is offline

Copper Coin

Copper Coin's Avatar
Outspoken D&D critic

#76

Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 866
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)

Default 

September 7th, 2018, 12:50
Originally Posted by TomRon View Post
Older DnD systems like in the infinity games (2.5) is not very fun in my opinion although the games are brilliant. To little diversity in character builds especially for martial classes.

But I've yet to play a CRPG where character building is as much fun as it was in NwN2. The addition of feats and prestige classes made planning your character builds half of the enjoyment.

The only game that comes even close (that I've played) is PoE2, the addition of multiclassing on the already good PoE system makes it versatile enough to be really interesting.

Distinctive classes, loads of options. That's fun. (To me). I think that's what really made me disappointed in DA:O, it has nowhere near the possibilities of DnD 3.5 nor PoE. TDE? Haven't played it in PnP, but at least in the CRPG's that I've played that utilized it levelling felt nowhere near as rewarding as in DnD. That might have been more about implementation though.
Agreed. 1st and 2nd Edition D&D sucked for diversity - and it's also the reason I think a lot of people prefer other systems.

While PoE2 is a huge step forward for their system, it still pales in comparison to 3.5 - not least of which because it's limited to only two classes, and especially because of how they handle active abilities as tied into the class itself, rather than feats you can pick as other classes.

Of course, there's a difference between 3.5 with only Player's Handbook - and then the ridiculous amount of extra material available.

Even so, the nature of multiclassing and the flexibility of the feat and spell system means you will almost literally never run out of builds.

In PoE 2 - there's a much more finite amount of combinations.

As for the best PnP system - that's really down to what you prefer and what you enjoy about PnP.

For me, the best part of PnP is completely separate from the rule system. It's the ability to play any role - and to share a social power fantasy, or any kind of fantasy, really. The ability to say or act in a way that would be counter to the best interests of yourself or others in real life.

Games have yet to enable that to the same extent, and therefore it's a complicated discussion.

I've tried many, many PnP systems in my time. Probably close to 40 or 50.

But I've only played extensively using a handful of systems, including DnD (the first iteration), AD&D, Gurps, Dangerous Journeys, Shadowrun, Drager og Dæmoner, Rolemaster - and a few others.

So, while my experience with PnP is pretty vast - I can't claim to have intricate knowledge of all of them. Far from it.

But, since we're talking about computer games - there's really only a very limited selection from which we can pick and compare.

Fallout SPECIAL is loosely based around Gurps, and Drakensang (old and new) is based on Dark Eye. There are others out there - but the vast majority of computer games are based on either D&D or something unique that the developers themselves came up with.

Also, we need to decide if we're talking about the system in an overall sense, or if we're talking about specific features - including character building, character progression, loot design, combat or other individual features.

I've played hundreds of CRPGs in my time - and I really, truly, struggle to remember a game with a more satisfying OVERALL "game" rule-system than those based around DnD 3+ edition.
Darth Tagnan is offline

Darth Tagnan

Darth Tagnan's Avatar
SasqWatch

#77

Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,620
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)

Default 

September 7th, 2018, 12:54
Originally Posted by Archangel View Post
While there are better systems for PnP, in all my years of computer gaming, I have not run into a better one for computer RPGs.
Given there have only been about four other semi-faithful P&P videogame adaptions, that's not the least bit surprising.

It is also based on tactical gameplay instead of action gameplay.
D&D would only be considered tactical by a casual gamer. 4th edition was actually a step in the right direction in terms of complex wargaming, but sadly they went backwards.
Last edited by Copper Coin; September 7th, 2018 at 13:33.
Copper Coin is offline

Copper Coin

Copper Coin's Avatar
Outspoken D&D critic

#78

Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 866
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)

Default 

September 7th, 2018, 12:54
Originally Posted by Silver Coin View Post
That's complete nonsense. 4th edition Dark Eye essentially has freeform character building, or something very close to it, and more attributes and skill choices than D&D.

D&D has a very rigid class structure that doesn't allow for 1/4th the build diversity of Dark Eye. Pease stop talking out your ass.
Let's not get upset

We're sharing opinions. You don't exactly appear more convincing by turning into a 5-year old.

I'm afraid freeform character building in and of itself doesn't necessarily translate into fun or meaningful diversity.

To me, fun and meaningful diversity isn't about the amount of builds I can come up with with 2% more in Swords and 4% less in Shields (or whatever) - it's the amount of distinct builds that are unique, effective and fun.

As for 3+ Edition of DnD - the class distinction is a large part of what's great about it, because you get to combine flavor with diversity - which is usually what's missing in systems like Dark Eye - where it's essentially just percentage numbers that separate builds rather than a rich range of fun active abilities designed around a specific power fantasy.

The identity of D&D classes - combined with the flexibility of non-class feats and spells on top of a rich multiclass system is what makes the system vastly superior to most others.

With that said, I don't remember which version of PnP Dark Eye I tried once 20 years ago - and I'm sure it has evolved since then.

But based on the computer games I've played - including the three old RoA games - and the two relatively recent Drakensang games - the system is utterly, utterly inferior in almost every single way.

However, that would be merely my opinion.
Darth Tagnan is offline

Darth Tagnan

Darth Tagnan's Avatar
SasqWatch

#79

Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,620
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)

Default 

September 7th, 2018, 13:01
Originally Posted by Morrandir View Post
Exactly. That'y why you can only argue that X is better than Y for all X,Y that everybody knows.
Or people without advanced knowledge of different RPG systems could stop pretending like they're qualified to praise D&D as being one of the best.

It's a cognitive bias. People that have only played D&D are obviously going to think D&D is the best thing ever, just as someone that has only played Fallout 4 would think it's the best game ever, because they haven't played New Vegas yet.
Copper Coin is offline

Copper Coin

Copper Coin's Avatar
Outspoken D&D critic

#80

Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 866
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » RPGWatch @ Gamescom - Realms Beyond Preview
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:22.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright by RPGWatch