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Default Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Dev Diary #2 Camera Action

April 13th, 2021, 06:30
Yeah well I said thanks and good to know. So yeah question answered. I also haven't played any of those games in months so my memory is shit about them. Moving on.
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April 13th, 2021, 09:05
@rjshae @Silver Don't worry, the highlight button is still there (I had already said that in the first post just below the news), so you can still play like Kingmaker without rotating the camera if you were not using that back then. You'll just miss a tiny little part of the scenery but it won't be significant, there are no writings on the walls

(there's also highlight in Encased and Solasta, on top of what JDR13 said)

To each their own, but I never felt rotating the camera was taking time. I rotate while the party is moving to check around, just to fill the time and because I like to see all sides. Whenever something hidden is revealed by perception, there's a little chime and I use the highlight key if I missed the brief auto-highlight.

It's also useful in combat to better separate the characters/creatures, target them or see what they're up to. But you can also target the avatars in TB mode. Personally I couldn't do without the rotation, especially in combat.

And I don't think it took them any significant time to implement. Camera rotation is a basic functionality, and as I said, scenery was already 3D in Kingmaker. It's not a small team anymore

Also, see how many people liked the camera mod on Nexus. Sure, you can say that you don't need it and it's perfectly fine, though IMO unnecessary, but I will just say this: making a game is a balanced work of pleasing most fans. This means there will be features that others like, even if that's not important to you. Suggesting they shouldn't spend time on it could easily be perceived as selfish.

There, I hope it clarifies the issue.
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April 13th, 2021, 09:21
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
Also, see how many people liked the camera mod on Nexus. Sure, you can say that you don't need it and it's perfectly fine, though IMO unnecessary, but I will just say this: making a game is a balanced work of pleasing most fans. This means there will be features that others like, even if that's not important to you. Suggesting they shouldn't spend time on it could easily be perceived as selfish..
Interesting. You talk about saying something unnecessary, but that's exactly what you just did. There was nothing left about that debate that still needed clarifying. It kind of seems like you brought it back up just to get the last word.
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April 13th, 2021, 09:59
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Interesting. You talk about saying something unnecessary, but that's exactly what you just did. There was nothing left about that debate that still needed clarifying. It kind of seems like you brought it back up just to get the last word.
And what about your post then? Please let's avoid this

No, I just wanted to clarify what I said earlier since apparently it wasn't clear, and few understood the nuance I was trying to convey. I think it's very necessary seeing the sort of replies we get these days (FYI, I got to read the replies here after this).

Besides, the debate did continue, I'm not responsible for my timezone.
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April 13th, 2021, 10:21
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
And what about your post then? Please let's avoid this

No, I just wanted to clarify what I said earlier since apparently it wasn't clear, and few understood the nuance I was trying to convey. I think it's very necessary seeing the sort of replies we get these days (FYI, I got to read the replies here after this).

Besides, the debate did continue, I'm not responsible for my timezone.
Just calling it as I see it. No one had mentioned the camera thing for several posts, so why necro it?

Also, to say anyone who isn't for camera rotation could easily be perceived as selfish just seemed like a lame passive-aggressive projection. Not saying you intended it that way, but that's the way it came off.
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April 13th, 2021, 10:46
I respect people can be sensitive. And on a completely unrelated note everyone is free to post comments and suggestions and no-one should worry about upsetting fanboys or trolls as long as its within forum rules.
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April 13th, 2021, 10:49
I find camera rotation quite fun - as long it doesn't create unnecessary pixel hunting for secret buttons.

Unfortunately, I do not think it would be 100% possible to play this game without rotating, because there actually are things to click on on walls etc. which may make it much more difficult if you can't actually see them.

On the highlight button - the game does have it, but I am not sure if it highlights all of those wall buttons too at this point.
I would have to jump back into a game to check, so maybe @purpleblob or @Redglyph can confirm.
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April 13th, 2021, 10:53
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Just calling it as I see it. No one had mentioned the camera thing for several posts, so why necro it?

Also, to say anyone who isn't for camera rotation could easily be perceived as selfish just seemed like a lame passive-aggressive projection. Not saying you intended it that way, but that's the way it came off.
Since it seems I have to justify myself: just look at the post after my last one, there are several on the camera and the highlight feature, plus a quote of what I wrote which clearly shows the message wasn't clear.

"to say anyone who isn't for camera rotation could easily be perceived as selfish" - not what I said. Apparently it's still not clear but I'm done trying. I did try in the first place because I appreciate you guys and prefer not to let something rot, and believe me, I'm not the only one who has a problem with that negativity.
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April 13th, 2021, 11:14
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
On the highlight button - the game does have it, but I am not sure if it highlights all of those wall buttons too at this point.
I would have to jump back into a game to check, so maybe @purpleblob or @Redglyph can confirm.
Heh, good remark. I had to check because I wasn't sure either, here's what I got. It's hardly a spoiler so don't worry.

Here it's pretty dark, but there's a lever to open a door. The screenshot is taken when highlight is active, and you can see a hand symbol for the lever, on the left. Lootable items on the right, and NPC/party character labels are also visible.
You can also see the walls and ceiling get transparent to show the characters.


Here you can see the items to examine are highlighted by a magnifying glass icon.


All those icons can be clicked without rotating the camera, so I think the answer is "yes". I'm not 100% sure TBH, but close enough.
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April 13th, 2021, 11:35
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
"to say anyone who isn't for camera rotation could easily be perceived as selfish" - not what I said. Apparently it's still not clear but I'm done trying. I did try in the first place because I appreciate you guys and prefer not to let something rot, and believe me, I'm not the only one who has a problem with that negativity.
I think it's fairly clear. You're projecting again with the negativity thing, but ok.

Some people just need to stop being overly sensitive. Others not caring about the same features as you doesn't equal negativity.
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April 13th, 2021, 11:36
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
@rjshae @Silver Don't worry, the highlight button is still there (I had already said that in the first post just below the news), so you can still play like Kingmaker without rotating the camera if you were not using that back then. You'll just miss a tiny little part of the scenery but it won't be significant, there are no writings on the walls

(there's also highlight in Encased and Solasta, on top of what JDR13 said)
I wasn't worried, thanks. I guess thats good to know as a backer who hasn't touched the game yet. FYI my suggestion was a general one aimed at 3d rpgs. Larian's BG3 could certainly use auto-highlight with auto camera rotation for example as they contain items from all angles.
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April 13th, 2021, 12:19
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
Heh, good remark. I had to check because I wasn't sure either, here's what I got. It's hardly a spoiler so don't worry.

Here it's pretty dark, but there's a lever to open a door. The screenshot is taken when highlight is active, and you can see a hand symbol for the lever, on the left. Lootable items on the right, and NPC/party character labels are also visible.
You can also see the walls and ceiling get transparent to show the characters.


Here you can see the items to examine are highlighted by a magnifying glass icon.


All those icons can be clicked without rotating the camera, so I think the answer is "yes". I'm not 100% sure TBH, but close enough.
Yeah, seems like it. I remember the hands now that you showed the screenshot.

Only other thing I can think might be colour puzzles (of which there's on in the early game). I guess you'd have to rotate the camera to do that one.
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April 13th, 2021, 13:28
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I think it's fairly clear. You're projecting again with the negativity thing, but ok.

Some people just need to stop being overly sensitive. Others not caring about the same features as you doesn't equal negativity.
"project" as in "to wrongly imagine that someone else is feeling a particular emotion or desire when in fact it is you who feels this way"? I haven't said anything negative out of selfishness. "Suggesting they shouldn't spend time on [features that others like] could easily be perceived as selfish" is what I said.

Again, it's not the only thread that receives that kind of "I don't care, but I still want to say this is rubbish" feedback. So yes, maybe some of us are somewhat sensitive to that and tire after a while, because we care about other people and receiving that in the face is not pleasant.

Seeing how you keep baiting me, it's obviously not a problem you have If you don't want to understand, I can't force you, but at least don't transform my words and don't second-guess my intentions.
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April 13th, 2021, 20:30
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
"project" as in "to wrongly imagine that someone else is feeling a particular emotion or desire when in fact it is you who feels this way"? I haven't said anything negative out of selfishness. "Suggesting they shouldn't spend time on [features that others like] could easily be perceived as selfish" is what I said.

Again, it's not the only thread that receives that kind of "I don't care, but I still want to say this is rubbish" feedback. So yes, maybe some of us are somewhat sensitive to that and tire after a while, because we care about other people and receiving that in the face is not pleasant.

Seeing how you keep baiting me, it's obviously not a problem you have If you don't want to understand, I can't force you, but at least don't transform my words and don't second-guess my intentions.
I'm pretty sure you know what I meant.

You're projecting that others are being overly negative when in reality they're just giving their opinions. You don't agree with said opinions, so now you're painting those people as somehow being toxic.

Apparently, any opinion that differs from yours is rubbish feedback.

I have no interest in baiting you. I'm just pointing something out, and you don't like it. Also, no one is transforming your words, so you can stop pretending that I don't understand and that you're some kind of victim here.
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