Skyrim - Secrets of the Wall

No, sales are actually completely irrelevant when we, as players, discuss whether a game is cliché or not.
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That might be what you wanted to discuss and nothing else, but other people are participating.

The point was that people want clichés, and sales can be a good tool to support that suggestion.

So, it's very very relevant to the point Bemushroomed was making. Unless it wasn't what he was saying, and as such I'd of course apologize for the misunderstanding.
 
Oblivion sales weren't helped by the utterly familiar fantasy setting?

Impossible to prove, I guess - but I'm 100% convinced it was a significant factor.
 
*Yawn*… easy to see where this is heading.

The comment that started the discussion was about having an original story. Sharing certain aspects of other games from the same developer has nothing to do with that whatsoever. Having similarities doesn't automatically make a game "cliche".

And yes, sales are irrelevant to the orginal comment.

Regarding Arx Fatalis, the background story was quite unique, even if the setting wasn't.
 
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As pointed above pretty much every mainstream story - whatever the medium - is a cliche. Mostly it boils down to good vs evil showdown, and details like magic barrier are just that- details, that are used to dress the cliche.

But, used wisely, these details will build the mood and help to distinguish the gameworld from other clones. In this manner, yes, Gothic > Oblivion. (In which particular case I had no problem with it`s allegedly cliched/bland story - I was making my own, thanks to the engine)
 
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*Yawn*… easy to see where this is heading.
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Yeah, I see it too :(

Why would you focus on the original comment, when your FIRST response was directed at the SECOND comment - which is where the relevancy of sales comes in.

An original story is an original story. The very word means that which is the origin. If something is NOT the origin, it's not original.

The thing is, though, that even the most cliché stories in the world WILL have original elements - like Avatar and the tail-thingies. The most original story WILL have familiar elements.

It's a simple enough thing to realise that there can never be such a thing as an objectively original story in a computer game.
 
Some of us are actually trying not to focus on semantics here.

Let's look at my first post again.

"A bit of an exaggeration there, to say the least. I could easily name a lot more than 1 or 2 games that would be considered original."
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I'd say it's sort of obvious (for most people anyways) that I was responding specifically to his claim that only "1 or 2" crpgs had an original story. Nothing to do with sales, or anything else, whatsoever.

Apparently having *anything* in common with something else, no matter the significance, automatically makes a story "unoriginal" in the eyes of some. If that's the way they feel then it's fine with me. I don't see it the same way, but I have no problem with other people seeing it differently.
 
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JDR13 said:
Some of us are actually trying not to focus on semantics here.

Let's look at my first post again.



I'd say it's sort of obvious (for most people anyways) that I was responding specifically to his claim that only "1 or 2" crpgs had an original story. Nothing to do with sales, or anything else, whatsoever.
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Yeah, you focus on numbers instead :)

His point - in the post you mostly ignored - was that people want clichés. You focused on the 1-2 number (ignoring the key word "like" in the process), which was very obviously an exaggeration and not the gist of what he was saying. Well, obvious to some.

Apparently having *anything* in common with something else, no matter the significance, automatically makes a story "unoriginal" in the eyes of some. If that's the way they feel then it's fine with me. I don't see it the same way, but I have no problem with other people seeing it differently.
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No, it's about whether something is familiar or not. I have no problem with you not getting that "familiar" feeling when playing unoriginal games like Jade Empire, though :)
 
DArtagnan said:
His point - in the post you mostly ignored - was that people want clichés. You focused on the 1-2 number, which was very obviously an exaggeration and not the gist of what he was saying. Well, obvious to some.
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Was it an intentional exaggeration? I don't think so. If that was the case then I'm pretty sure he would have pointed that out when I addressed it. In fact, he seems quite adamant that it wasn't an exaggeration.


DArtagnan said:
No, it's about whether something is familiar or not. I have no problem with you not getting that "familiar" feeling when playing original games like Jade Empire, though :)
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I fixed that typo for you. Yes, there were some things in Jade Empire that were familiar, just like there is with practically everything. That still doesn't make it cliche. I'm sure we can simply just agree to disagree at this point though.
 
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JDR13 said:
Was it an intentional exaggeration? I don't think so. If that was the case then I'm pretty sure he would have pointed that out when I addressed it. In fact, he seems quite adamant that it wasn't an exaggeration.
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I agree he should have stipulated by now, but is it that important?

I fixed that typo for you. Yes, there were some things in Jade Empire that were familiar, just like there is with practically everything. That still doesn't make it cliche. I'm sure we can simply just agree to disagree at this point though.
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:)

Yeah, let's do that.

I leave this parting gift - in case you're not familiar with it:

http://hellforge.gameriot.com/blogs/Hellforge/Bioware-RPG-Cliche-Chart
 
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I wish there were more games like Albion. That was original and cliche all wrapped in a lovely RPG shell. You had your sci-fi spaceships and aliens. Add in a dash of iron-age celts. Throw a little magic in there to boot and OMG it was pure awesomeness masquerading as a simple old PC game.
 
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On a side note, when you're comparing the story of a crpg to *all* media, i.e. books, movies, etc., then of course there's going to be almost no games that could be considered "original".

I was making a comparison only to pre-existing games, and I think that was where there might have been a misunderstanding.


@skavenhorde - I loved the setting in Albion. I played it a bit for the first time last year, and was very impressed, despite the age. Now that would be a great candidate for a remake imo.
 
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Well, to me a story is a story - no matter how it's told. But naturally, there are fewer unoriginal stories in games when you remove all other forms of storytelling.

With all that said, I guess I should mention that I don't really care that much about originality when it comes to games and their storyline/premise.

Sure, a totally cliché story can be a turn-off, but I generally just want a story that I find plausible within the boundaries set by the premise and game world. I just want something to drive me forward, and I consider a truly original story (or characters) a pleasant surprise.

Maybe it's because I'm a gameplay guy, but unfortunately I also think that I've been conditioned for so long by such crappy stories in games - that I've just relented and accepted that's how it goes.
 
Are we talking about original in the terms that it hasn't/hadn't been done in a fantasy computer rpg or original as in all fantasy? Books, movies, comics, games etc?
 
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skavenhorde said:
I wish there were more games like Albion. That was original and cliche all wrapped in a lovely RPG shell. You had your sci-fi spaceships and aliens. Add in a dash of iron-age celts. Throw a little magic in there to boot and OMG it was pure awesomeness masquerading as a simple old PC game.
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I agree. The whole cultures were very original, especially that of this feline race ...
 
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skavenhorde said:
I wish there were more games like Albion. That was original and cliche all wrapped in a lovely RPG shell. You had your sci-fi spaceships and aliens. Add in a dash of iron-age celts. Throw a little magic in there to boot and OMG it was pure awesomeness masquerading as a simple old PC game.
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Albion was a spiritual successor to Amberstar and Ambermoon. The game's all use the same basic engine and are quite fun. Amberstar has long been a favorite of mine, though it's getting very long in the tooth.
 
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Albion rather ruled.
However, it had two notable problems - quite terrible 3D dungeons implementation (the game would be better without it) and, iirc, sorta rigid linearity.
A really good game nevertheless and the setting was interesting.
 
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