Anyone else here train in the gym

CelticFrost

SasqWatch
Joined
April 2, 2011
Messages
3,381
Anyone else here a gym rat or into body building?

I spent 25 years in the gym and took the last two years off. I have been back now for the last 5 months and back to 270lbs 6'2" or 123kg, 188cm.

Still trying to lose a bit of body fat and maybe put on a bit more size....
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
3,381
I'm pretty sure JDR does :)

I train at home - but not in an effort to get big. I do it because I find it relatively effortless in terms of the investment-to-reward ratio. Meaning, it doesn't take that much to get results - both in terms of appearance and fat-burning.

That said, I haven't trained for the past two months or so - because of my little encounter with LPR. But I'll be getting back to it in a month or so - when I feel comfortable about using my body in that way again.

I'm not a big fan of the "big" look - but I definitely want to put on a bit more muscle mass, to find a nice balance. I'm an average sized guy overall - so I'd never be that big no matter what I did, except in the way I don't like :)
 
270lbs sounds pretty impressive! I started going recently (a few months back) to combat the middle age muscle loss and belly spread. A mix of aerobic and weights. I'm naturally big boned (as Cartman would put it) and 6'5", it would be good to have more muscle mass and be less flabby. :) Currently my weight comes mainly from beer rather than exercise I think….

Anyway, I'm enjoying the weights more than I thought I would. I'm lifting gradually heavier stuff, although I'm not doing anything particularly heavy currently. I'm not entirely certain I'm lifting in the most effective way to be honest - I'm getting a bit more toned but not building up the muscle mass. I'm looking into getting a personal trainer a bit later in the year to improve my technique and take it a bit more seriously. I suspect my diet might also be a problem (i don't eat meat or fish so protein is coming in from milk drinks and nuts etc). I'm also using the machine weights, and I guy in the gym was telling me free weights are more effective so I need to look into that.

I can see how it gets addictive though. It's really satisfying when you manage a set you know you would have struggled with a few weeks back.
 
Joined
Apr 13, 2012
Messages
1,901
Location
UK
I always thought only JDR here is obsessed with it. :D

Vulture has a theory why Baywatch flooped:
http://www.vulture.com/2017/05/zac-efrons-muscles-are-way-too-much.html
Muscles have become a requirement to lead a movie franchise, and more than ever there’s an entire cottage industry of physical trainers and nutritionists (as well as supplements, steroids, and hormones) designed to help actors and their body doubles “get into superhero shape.”

Anyway, I do not visit gyms or something nor ever would. I'm kinda always after what nature normally provides and I don't care about muscles.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
23,459
The reason free weights are better then machines is that you have to use your stabilizer muscles with free weights. You have to have good form and body control with free weights or you can hurt yourself.

I have lifted weights since I was 14 and am still the same weight I was in college at 47. 6'2'' and 200 pounds. I don't go as heavy now of course but I still do free weights mostly. I have added a lot of own body weight exercises as I get older. Ex. push ups, pull ups, sit ups and dips.

If you have never done free weights before I would recommend to get a trainer or work out partner at first that knows what they are doing. Very easy to hurt your back or shoulders with wrong form.
 
Joined
Aug 28, 2010
Messages
2,859
Location
Wolf Light Woods
Been about it, what, 5-6 years or so ( though on judo/boxing we always did some light weight lifting, endurance runs).
Funny we're about the same height, though I'm about 105 kg, about 10% BF. By now pretty much managed to built physique I've wanted ( raise your hand here who jumped into it after seeing Conan).
Been thinking about taking it further for a while, but man, after seeing Coleman's videos...quickly turned away.
Today's bodybuilding is more an abomination of what it was ( sort of like with golden age of porn, eh?).
 
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Messages
3,898
Location
Croatia
Not me, but damn, you are a mountain man in size...I thought all of us video gamers were supposed to be thin, light weight, pencil neck geeks, lol. Just joking.
I'm 5' 11" and about 210 pounds. Have a medium to large body frame, but your football player-like dimensions make me look like a midget or something, heh.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
2,246
Location
Pacific NorthWest, USA!
I'm not at all into body building but power lifting is fun. I don't go crazy anymore as I'm diabetic now and take too long to recover. I mostly play around in the gym nowadays. Need more cardio, but I hate it. My company has a gym on campus, though it's not fancy. Free weights and cardio stuff mostly. They also pay for half of my other gym membership, so that's cool.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
8,836
Anyway, I'm enjoying the weights more than I thought I would. I'm lifting gradually heavier stuff, although I'm not doing anything particularly heavy currently. I'm not entirely certain I'm lifting in the most effective way to be honest - I'm getting a bit more toned but not building up the muscle mass. I'm looking into getting a personal trainer a bit later in the year to improve my technique and take it a bit more seriously. I suspect my diet might also be a problem (i don't eat meat or fish so protein is coming in from milk drinks and nuts etc). I'm also using the machine weights, and I guy in the gym was telling me free weights are more effective so I need to look into that.

Personally, I wouldn't waste money on a personal trainer at this point. If you're thinking of doing that later in the year, you should already have a decent grasp of what you need to do by then. Instead, try to find a friend who wants to work out and partner up.

Also, if you're only using machines right now then you don't need to stress over your technique too much. Most gym machines are designed so that they can only be used one way, so it's pretty hard to use them incorrectly. Free weights can be superior though for the reasons Hastar mentioned. That doesn't mean machines aren't good, just that you should be using a combination of both.

If you're curious about trying a new exercise, or if you just want to make sure you're doing one correctly, YouTube is great for instructional videos. Just make sure to cross-reference it with written material from a good source. You'll get the occasional moron on YouTube who only thinks he's showing you the correct way. :)
 
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
39,332
Location
Florida, US
I go to the gym several times per week (well, most weeks ;) ) and alternate with lots of cardio (running all year round + biking in the spring/summer/fall when outside temps are at least 18°C+ or so).

I had a wrist injury (broke it and it only grew back together by 60% so it is permanently damaged) when I was a young lad at age 18 so I never had a chance to get into the real heavy stuff. I always focused on fitness/definition at the gym (men's physique style).

The highest body weight (while still being lean) I ever achieved was 90kg at 180cm height which happened when I had to cut back on cardio due to an injury and tried to push myself harder in the gym. I also supplemented creatine at that time so ~4kg was probably pure water.
When I recovered from my leg injury, cardio was a real drag with being such a heavy cow so I cut back on the lifting, dropped all supplements (everything... not even protein shakes for me anymore either) and lost weight very quickly.

Nowadays I'm back at just over 80kg and a happy, pretty fit camper for a 44 year old dude. I run up to 10 miles every other day (or ride my bike for up to 60 miles uphill/downhill/road mix etc.) and go to the gym several times per week.

I sometimes watch German YouTube bodybuilding/fitness channels for the lulz because there is a (not overly serious but funny) beef war between old school pro IFBB bodybuilders like Markus Rühl and modern fitness hipsters who try to sell basic concepts under a fancy new name (like the -here- infamous ProBros who claim to be vegan natural bodybuilders but clearly aren't as natural as they'd like people to believe... I mean, come on ;) ).

This is only for lulz though. The best English language channel IMHO for serious training tips is Athlean-X with Jeff Cavaliere.
Yes, he wants to sell his namesake program, too, but the advertising is always subtle just at the end of his vids and you are still getting tons upon tons of invaluable advice in every video for free.
What makes him an awesome trainer aside from a decent personality and very sophisticated way to express himself is his background in physical therapy for pro major league baseball teams.
He is a REAL professional expert with a proven track record and knows exactly what he is talking about. No retarded bro science but straight facts for functional training.
Three million+ subs don't lie. The guy is a fantastic source for motivation and training tips and lately he has even added in some humor with his cameraman Jesse starring as a hardgainer in front of the lens. Highly recommended.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
3,201
I work as a Personal trainer, so I mostly train others in the gym… ;)

Nowhere near the size of some of you guys, but my main goal with my own training is OCR's (Obstacle Course Races). I mix running (which I hate) with Power Lifting and body weighr exercises like dips and pullups. Right now I'm having some shoulder problems though and it's race season, so only running and Bench pressing….
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2010
Messages
3,216
Location
Sweden
I work as a Personal trainer, so I mostly train others in the gym… ;)

Nowhere near the size of some of you guys, but my main goal with my own training is OCR's (Obstacle Course Races). I mix running (which I hate) with Power Lifting and body weighr exercises like dips and pullups. Right now I'm having some shoulder problems though and it's race season, so only running and Bench pressing….

As a personal trainer, what would you advise in terms of getting sufficient protein and calories to build mass - if I had to limit the (physical) amount of food I can eat as much as possible?
 
As a personal trainer, what would you advise in terms of getting sufficient protein and calories to build mass - if I had to limit the (physical) amount of food I can eat as much as possible?

How often and how hard do you work out? The recommendation for Elite athletes who train several hours every day is 2 grams of protein /kg bodyweight /day. If you manage to reach that you'll be fine in regards to protein, but most of us don't even need that much. Guys like Celtic and Bobo probably do though.

In regards to Calories, that's a bit trickier. How does your weight curve look over the last month or so, declining/inclining/steady? In general, to build muscle you need to eat more energy than you spend (naturally), and it's easier to maintain a slight positive energy balance than hitting break even (trying to break even always carries the risk of a negative energy balance which is not optimal for building muscle mass).

Different individuals need different amounts of energy, so the best thing is tracking your own development by using the scale daily at the same time point. Within about two weeks you'll have a pretty good idea of where your body's heading, and in your case that should be slightly upward in weight as long as the weights in the gym are increasing too.
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2010
Messages
3,216
Location
Sweden
How often and how hard do you work out? The recommendation for Elite athletes who train several hours every day is 2 grams of protein /kg bodyweight /day. If you manage to reach that you'll be fine in regards to protein, but most of us don't even need that much. Guys like Celtic and Bobo probably do though.

In regards to Calories, that's a bit trickier. How does your weight curve look over the last month or so, declining/inclining/steady? In general, to build muscle you need to eat more energy than you spend (naturally), and it's easier to maintain a slight positive energy balance than hitting break even (trying to break even always carries the risk of a negative energy balance which is not optimal for building muscle mass).

Different individuals need different amounts of energy, so the best thing is tracking your own development by using the scale daily at the same time point. Within about two weeks you'll have a pretty good idea of where your body's heading, and in your case that should be slightly upward in weight as long as the weights in the gym are increasing too.

Oh, I'm well aware of all that - but thank you :)

I usually train 3 times pr. week for an hour of medium intensity. But that has been more to maintain what muscle mass I already have (not a lot) - rather than build mass. I've been doing it to burn fat at the same time, which - as you said - is very tricky if you want to have muscle mass. So, while I've eaten enough protein, I've been in a ~500 calorie deficit for a while.

But I'm thinking of going to 4 times pr. week with more intensity and heavier weights - and then upping my calorie/protein intake.

What I don't understand, however, is how a much higher calorie count is necessary for more muscle mass.

I mean, if some average guy wants to get really big - he usually takes a LOT of calories, like - say - 3-6K calories each day.

If protein is what muscles are made from, then why do these guys eat that many calories beyond what their bodies need? Why not just eat 500 more than they burn?

Maybe they train for several hours each day on top and that's why? I guess maybe that's it.

Anyway, my problem is that because of my current condition (LPR) - I'm more or less forced to eat smaller - easily digestable - meals - and I can't go to bed with a full stomach. So, I would have to get both my calories and protein from such meals, and I'm not sure what would be ideal here.

I'm thinking a ton of chicken and vegetables - but ~3K (I need around 2300 to maintain my weight) calories worth of that? :)
 
I don't go to the gym, but I've walked just over 1,000 miles in the past year so I have lovely calf muscles.
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2014
Messages
4,778
Altight Dart, that's more specific then. Regarding the guys who eat 4000kcal+ in the "bulk" phase that's way overkill according to all the studies I've read and in my professional experience too. There's alot of myths in Body Building that has been hanging around for decades although multiple studies have shown them incorrect.

If you've got good enough control on your calorie intake to know that you've been at a 500kcal deficit then you're alot more aware than most. What I would recommend is adding roughly 700-900kcal to your current calorie intake, more than that and you'll just start putting on fat and that's hardly the point. And if you're protein intake is already high enough I wouldn't bother with trying to reach that by eating more chicken or vegetables. Chicken would be roughly 1kg/chicken a day and vegetables several kg. Upping your protein and/or vegetable intake is great when you want to LOSE weight, but like you implied you have to eat a freaking lot of it in order to gain. You still want enough protein and veggies of course, but in order to easily reach a weight increasing diet I would rather add more energy rich foods, like fatter meat/fish, dairy and grains.

I know I'd rather eat 200g pasta more per day than 1kg of chicken… Carbs in general and Grains in particular are shunned all over the western world for being one of the major causes of obesity (together with pure sugar of course) and rightfully so. But for people who actually try to get off their asses and spend some energy they're the best energy source we have.

What are the major things you've removed from your diet that has have a positive effect on your LPR? If you've cut down on grains and gotten a good response from it gaining weight is hardly a reason to start eating them again, there are other alternatives that have decent energy density too, like legumes and of course nuts and oils…
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 20, 2010
Messages
3,216
Location
Sweden
Altight Dart, that's more specific then. Regarding the guys who eat 4000kcal+ in the "bulk" phase that's way overkill according to all the studies I've read and in my professional experience too. There's alot of myths in Body Building that has been hanging around for decades although multiple studies have shown them incorrect.

Yeah, that's sort of been my feeling as well - but I'm very far from an expert :)

If you've got good enough control on your calorie intake to know that you've been at a 500kcal deficit then you're alot more aware than most. What I would recommend is adding roughly 700-900kcal to your current calorie intake, more than that and you'll just start putting on fat and that's hardly the point. And if you're protein intake is already high enough I wouldn't bother with trying to reach that by eating more chicken or vegetables. Chicken would be roughly 1kg/chicken a day and vegetables several kg. Upping your protein and/or vegetable intake is great when you want to LOSE weight, but like you implied you have to eat a freaking lot of it in order to gain wait. You still want enough protein and veggies of course, but in order to easily reach a weight increasing diet I would rather add more energy rich foods, like fatter meat/fish, dairy and grains.

I'm very experienced when it comes to counting calories and losing weight ;)

No, I meant upping my protein intake to what it was before I stopped training - as I've had to stop for a couple of months until I regained control of my body. I know about the protein-to-weight ratio - so that's what I've been sticking with, and I will go back to that.

It's primarily the calories I would need to up to around ~2800 or so - if I intend to gain more mass, I guess.

But I've yet to find the ideal combination of burning fat and gaining muscle mass.

Right now, I'm all the way down to 70 kg. (178 cm). I usually hover around 75 - which is still around 5 kg. lower than I would like to be - in terms of the amount of muscle I'm comfortable with, and which I find attractive. So, I'll have to gain around 10 kg. of muscle - but I'm in no hurry or anything :)

I know I'd rather eat 200g pasta more per day than 1kg of chicken… Carbs in general and Grains in particular are shunned all over the western world for being one of the major causes of obesity (together with pure sugar of course) and rightfully so. But for people who actually try to get off their asses and spend some energy they're the best energy source we have.

Oh, so would I. It's my own opinion that it doesn't really matter what you eat - as long as you do it in moderation and you understand how the body works in terms of burning calories - as well as what kind of vitamins and minerals you need.

What are the major things you've removed from your diet that has had a positive effect on your LPR? If you've cut down on grains and gotten a good response from it gaining weight is hardly a reason to start eating them again, there are other alternatives that have decent energy density too, like legumes and nuts.

Actually, it seems I can still eat pretty much everything - it's more about the amount of it I eat in one meal.

One thing that's clearly not a good idea is really fatty foods - like junk food - because it takes a long time to digest and will leave my stomach full for too long.

Also, coffee and alcohol both get bad reactions from me unless I'm really conservative with the amounts. Has to do with how they're relaxing the sphincters controlling the flow of food allowing stomach acid and pepsin (digestive enzyme) to go the wrong way - but I won't bore you with the details :)

So, what I'm looking for is something that's reasonably high in calories - and which I don't need to have too much of in terms of the physical space it will take up in my stomach, and that's also relatively easy to digest.

I've yet to try protein shakes or protein cookies with my LPR - but that might be a good way to cover the protein intake.

As for calories, I guess I'll just have to experiment a little. Nuts sound good - but I don't actually know how they work in terms of digestion.

Anyway, thanks a lot for taking the time to answer my questions :)
 
No problem, sounds to me like you've got most of it figured out already though. Actually, that's usually the way it is with most people. They know what they're supposed to eat more of and less of, they just need to hear it from someone else. What most people don't quite grasp though is the energy part. Loads of "healthy" foods are still really calorie dense. And several less healthy aren't.

Nothing wrong with protein shakes, or in your case maybe a gainer (which usually contain about 25g protein and 100g carbs per serving), but most people have no problem getting by without 'em. I tend to use them during harder weeks in my prgramming, but mostly because I'm lazy and never seem to have an appetite right after working out.
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2010
Messages
3,216
Location
Sweden
No problem, sounds to me like you've got most of it figured out already though. Actually, that's usually the way it is with most people. They know what they're supposed to east more of and less of, they just need to hear it from someone else.

Yeah, I just thought hearing it from an expert would give me a hint or two about being on the right or the wrong track ;)

Nothing wrong with protein shakes, or in your case maybe a gainer (which usually contain about 25g protein and 100g carbs per serving), but most people have no problem getting by without 'em. I tend to use them during harder weeks in my prgramming, but mostly because I'm lazy and never seem to have an appetite right after working out.

I usually take protein powder with straight water (as in, a boring shake) - mostly because I didn't want to "waste" my calories on boring protein stuff.

I used to really enjoy eating big meals in the evening - and I only really cared about not exceeding my calorie count. Meaning, because I didn't eat that much earlier in the day - I could eat whatever junk I wanted during the evening after training, so long as it contributed to my protein count for the day.

Worked great until this LPR thing happened. Probably had something to do with bringing it about, too ;)
 
As a personal trainer, what would you advise in terms of getting sufficient protein and calories to build mass - if I had to limit the (physical) amount of food I can eat as much as possible?

I'm not a personal trainer but I've built mass and been on many a diet before (like right now actually ;) ) and watched dozens upon dozens of YT clips including those of personal trainers and pro bb'ers so here's my "bro science" take.

For starters, an important thing to keep in mind is this rule of thumb:

1g protein = about 4kcal
1g carbs = about 4kcal
1g fat = 9kcal

So as we can see, protein and carbs have the same multiplier while fat has a MUCH higher multiplier.

If you want to build mass and not get unreasonably fat in the process then you should eat about 2g of protein per kg of body weight. For me, at 80kg body weight, I'd try to hit ~160g protein/day which would put my protein-based calorie intake at around 640kcal (x 4 multiplier).

Carbs and fat distribution don't really matter very much when you are trying to build muscle. Don't go overboard with fat though. 1g to 1.5g per kg body weight should do. Fill up the rest with carbs to have enough energy for your heavy workouts.

When you are trying to lose weight, however, then -obviously- you should reduce fat because of its high x9 multiplier so if you want to maintain muscle mass in a diet as much as possible, you should eat the same 2g of protein per kg body weight, reduce fat to about 0.5g of fat per kg body weight and fill up the rest with carbs up to your daily max calories.

Finally, as for the daily max calories, whether it is in your bulk or your lean phase, you just have to experiment because no two bodies are the same. Your daily activity level matters, your specific metabolism matters, your workout routine matters, there is no one-size-fits-all solution.

So you just have to experiment, e.g. when bulking and trying to put on "lean" mass, you could start with taking in anywhere between 3000 and 4000kcal per day and watch what happens. Do you put on weight, do you gain muscle and strength, do you gain muscle but also too much fat at the same time? Then adjust your calorie intake accordingly.

Same with a diet. You could start with a moderate deficit and e.g. eat 2000kcal/day. Then check after a week. Did you lose a reasonable amount of weight (~1kg = reasonable)? If yes, keep at it. If no, increase the deficit moderately and try maybe 1800kcal as a next step.
If you lost an unreasonable amount of weight, like 2kg+ in a week then increase your calorie intake to protect your muscle mass better.

In a nutshell: Check. Adjust. Check. Adjust. Check. Adjust. Or don't adjust but just keep at it if it works, of course. Be patient and don't cheat. That is all there is to it. It is really simple actually. You just have to do it is all :) .
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
3,201
Back
Top Bottom